Over on the Ask Us Anything section we’re starting to see the same questions come up. This post is going to address why the advice won’t change and how we can save time together.
1) How Do I improve my Diet? We have covered diet advice in a post. If you haven’t taken a look then go ahead and read the post. If you’re slogging 80 hours a week you need to be efficient and as we stated before, if you don’t want to read the post, here’s the basic outline:
Breakfast: Fruit + Protein. Worst case a protein shake in the AM and a banana/fruit bowl on your way to work
Lunch: If you have a high paying job, lunch is used to improve your political positioning so you always eat with people so suck up the $10-12 meals
Dinner: You can get $25+ from your company, do not waste it on unhealthy food. Most people will eat terribly which starts the downward spiral. There are hundreds of options online using seamless. If you don’t have to work late… then make your meal at home after your day is done.
By doing this you guarantee 2/3 of your main meals are healthy. Lunch may be hit or miss, but if you’re smart all 3 will be perfectly fine and you won’t break the bank.
2) What Bank do I Join? Again this question misses the point by a country mile. The question is, which bank will allow me to get promoted the fastest. If you have no idea which bank then go by the rule of thumb
Elite Boutique (Moelis, Qatalyst, Centerview, Evercore, Lazard, etc.)
Bulge Bracket (Goldman, Morgan Stanley, Citi, etc.)
Middle Market (Jefferies, Piper Jaffray, etc.)
No-Name Banks (simply make sure it is the same job function)
No, we will not get into a back and forth about “what exactly is E-Boutique versus not” it is up to you to make that decision but if you’ve done your due diligence the answer will be extremely obvious. If they pay above top bonuses at a bulge bracket… it’s an E-boutique. If it pays the same as a BB… it’s probably smarter to choose the BB.
After your very first job none of this matters at all anymore. From that point forward you choose the firm that is going to promote you the fastest. Think smart. It is about responsibility not prestige.
“F*** prestige get money”
Put that quote on your cubicle. People who obsess over prestige have never had a long career on Wall Street. Maximum of maybe 5 years. To put the nail in the coffin check out one of two blogs we recommend (we only recommend Danger and Play and Financial Samurai). Click on FS’s blog… notice something? He started at a top shop but his real money came in after getting promoted and generating a ton of revenue. **hint hint**
3) When Should I Work Out? Well do you even work out? If you’re under 30 years old and you don’t work out 6 days a week you’ve already lost in the first place. If you have been working out 6 days a week, you probably already have a healthy routine! See how that works? So the question is not when you should work out it is if you even work out in the first place. We got this question many times and the answer when pushed is exactly the same.
If you work on the East Coast you go to the gym first thing in the morning. If you work on the West Coast you go to the gym after work.
You can feel free to change this if you’re a morning person or a night owl but it really misses the point. The point is this:
“There is no science, there is simply consistency.”
Consistency is how you keep yourself honest. If you can make it to the gym every single day and lift correctly, you’re going to see gains.
4) What Do You Think About the Stock Market Levels? Always the same answer, do not care at all. You should not care if the S&P is at 1,700 or 2,000… simply dollar cost average into cheap ETFs such as VOO, SPY etc.
If you’re trying to beat the stock market and you only have a half million dollars or so in the bank, you’re wasting your time. $500K in the bank to invest is pretty much a waste of effort. It means if you beat the bench mark by call it 5% that is only $25K. You may as well go and chase real revenue in a business. $25K for 10+hours a week is only $48/hour… That is significantly worse than what you’re making on the job anyway.
If the economy collapses? It doesn’t matter again. Generally recessions last about a year so you simply sit around and take the extra cash that was on the sidelines and buy any time there is a large correction. Your cash was on the sidelines because you want to continue buying through the dips so you get lower entry prices. Maybe you lost your job for a few months. No big deal. You had cash on the side to keep buying and get your next position.
If the market goes up 20%? Great already exposed getting richer!
What if inflation goes “crazy”? Again already own assets… getting richer! Only poor people think inflation is a bad thing.
5) I Make $50K and I am X Years Old What Do I Do? Some tough love and inspiration at the same time. First why in the world did you do this to yourself? If you look around there is money everywhere. A weekend in a high cost city driving an Uber will net you $30+ an hour. That is an extremely low estimate and yet that gets you an extra $60K per year. Why is it an *extra* 60K per year? Well, if you’re not working at least 80 hours per week and you’re broke, you have no one to blame but yourself. Anyone who believes they should be rich working 40 hours a week is going to be in for a rude awakening.
If you attempt to come back with the “but i’m smart” argument, you’re going to get laughter on this side of the web. Why? If you were actually *smart but lazy* you wouldn’t be broke in the first place right? It is much smarter to control what you can control. Go ahead and start slogging those long hours because at some point everyone pays their dues.
Finally, to put the nail in the coffin on this one… If you believe that anything over 40 hours is “too much work” then how exactly are you going to catch up to someone better than you putting in more time? If Person A is working 60 hours a week making $100K per year and you’re working 40 hours a week making $50K… You’re already making significantly less than Person A on an “hourly basis” and there is no way you’re going to catch up by working less and learning less.
Get to the grind!
6) Does Money Attract Women? Yes. Anyone who says otherwise has never made a good amount of money. Here is a general guideline since the question is asked so frequently:
$50K or less: it will be a negative to your sex life because you are not making enough
$50K – $100K: in a regular city this will be perfectly fine, in a major city it is still a detriment to your sex life
$100K-$175K: in a regular city you’re doing well, in a major city it now has no negative or positive impacts to your sex life
$175-$250K: Positive impact to your sex life in practically every city
$250-500K: Significant positive, less because of your life but because of the value of your time. At this point you’re extremely busy, you’re traveling, you’re not available, these are traits that will make you incredibly attractive. It won’t be possible to fake these trips/traits.
$500K+: It is practically impossible to blow through this type of money with common sense and everything in the previous tier are truer.
$1M+: If you can make this income at any point in your life you’re set. Your life changes because all of your actions value your time and comfort. You fly business/first class and do not care. You live a life that is impossible to fake.
Given the range and scope of this blog, it is certainly possible to get to $250-500K (before mid 30′s of course). This is achievable for anyone who wants it. When you start pushing up on high 6 figures and 7 figure numbers, you’re going to have to do something special.
Finally, there is no need to bother asking people like us. You can check out James Altucher’s blog, a multi-millionaire, who comes to the same conclusion… money gets girls.
(Caveat: before all the guys who live on shoestring budgets come in, yes you still need some social skills. That is about it though. If you don’t have some sort of social disease you’re going to be perfectly fine if you ever obtain large amounts of money)
7) Can You Hire Me? No
8) Are You Writing a Book? Maybe, not enough page views as of today. Creating a book that will take a long amount of time. It is certainly not worth it for a 5 figure payoff.
9) Industry Overview on XXX Sector? Probably, these are for Wall Street folk and the blog is currently a ~50/50 split it seems. This means it’s likely but no promises.
10) Resume Reviews? Nope! Hate them.
11) Can You Redesign the Blog? 100% agree needs to be re-done, no time-table yet though.
2) I am XX years old What do i Do to break in? We also get this one far too many times here’s the general guideline. Unless you have something spectacular you are holding back, this is the backdrop.
Analyst: If you are 25 years old or younger, keep gunning for an entry level slot as an analyst. This means you pass CFA level 1 if you have absolutely no finance experience to prove you understand the basics and then you get straight to networking. If you’re at a non-target then read our post on how to network/recruit. Now if you are from a no name school, no work experience and low GPA. You have next to no shot and are better off going to get an MBA later in life. This is the truth. As a non-target or older candidate with no experience, you need to have something to bring to the table otherwise you will lose time and time again to 22 year old candidates with banking internships, top GPAs and a great school.
Associate: If you are 26-33 years old this is your second chance to break in. If you have nothing related to finance, probably best to get an MBA.
Vice President and Above: Likely 33+ years old and you’re making a switch from a revenue generating career. In this case you should already know if you’re well qualified. Generally speaking, if you’re in a sales role or run a product line at a firm and are paid $300K+… You’re likely a good fit (this is general as most people who are in this slot know if they have the skills to move to the sell-side or not)
There you have it, it will answer 99% of questions. If you’re young you simply network and spin your resume assuming you have some skills that are transferable. If you’re in your late 20s you’re likely better off with a top MBA.
Hey guys,
I’m a 19 year old college student that’s going to be interning at New York Life in about a week or so. My plan is to start off by selling life insurance and then work my way up to become a financial advisor. Any advice that you guys could recommend?
We don’t cover that area so would not be of much help.
We suggest searching out FA blogs/mentors instead to help you take the correct next steps.
What are your thoughts on friends that are not all around successful, but excel in a particular area? I have an acquaintance who is broke as a joke, has a kid from one of his many conquests, but he is an incredible social magnet. As a smart & successful but slightly socially awkward person, I figure I could learn a lot from him about social dynamics & skills.
Yes you should only take advice from him in regards to social interactions.
He is of no use to talk to about making money or life decisions.
Thoughts on taking up salsa dancing or yoga to meet women? Or should I spending all my time lifting and working on my side business and just learn to meet women that come across my path in everyday life.
You should do all of those things. If you’re not improving yourself for at least 60-80 hours a week in your 20s you’ll fall off the map by 35.
Use your energy to invest in yourself, all of those items sound positive.
any advice on raising capital for a startup?
Your own money
Possibly, money from debt
If you’re of meaningful size/scale the bankers will call you.
Need help with a cold email for an internship. I have no work experience, so my only selling point is my 3.8 GPA highlighting my ability to learn. So far I have….
Hello (name),
I’m (name) from (university) graduating in May 2015 and studying business and finance. I recently learned of (company) and am very interested in learning more about (industry and potential careers). Would you or any other professionals at (company) be interested in taking on an intern for the upcoming semester?
Thank you for your time
Sincerely,
Name
Do I attempt to sell myself with the learning aspect or just go with this?
Additional note: I am emailing boutique investment banks, hedge funds, and private equity firms… if that impacts your advice in any way
We have answered cold emailing already.
Please look for recruiting as a non-target for more info.
That’s the article I based what I have on. Unfortunately I don’t have the prior experience needed to write a similar email to your example. Points 2 and 3 from the cold email section of that article are what I lack (why hire me, what I can bring).
You should highlight your grades and also apply to unpaid internships in that case.
If you truly want to break into a high paying position you need to start from the bottom and break through upward.
If you have zero on your resume, 1) start with friends and a family, 2) unpaid positions at your career center and 3) research related jobs at your university so you have a line item.
Cold emailing to legitimate high-end positions with no background is likely going to fall on deaf ears. There are too many candidates with solid backgrounds emailing. Find a extremely low position and work up from there.
As it stands, probably best to start unpaid or with a friend. Most with zero connections go the unpaid route.
Finally, there is no reason to have nothing on your resume. You should be a tutor starting immediately.
Just started week one on investment banking as an analyst. Putting in about 80 hours. Few questions and will probably follow up with more if you’re willing to answer:
1. How to stay fit and in shape when working long hours? Do you workout in the morning early like at 6am or at night at like 1am? (I find it hard to wake up early to workout and hard to workout at night when all I want to do is sleep)
2. Haven’t met all the MD’s yet (as some are on vacation or traveling to meet clients) but what’s the best way to make the best impression ? Topics to discuss when they take us out for welcome lunch / dinner?
Thanks,
CA
Both questions were both asked and answered here
how can someone improve their social skills daily, weekly,monthly,annually? what steps of exercises can someone do or perform?
Easy, just take where you are at currently from a social standpoint and take baby steps.
If someone has severe social issues then you should make a habit of talking to a stranger every single day.
If you’re comfortable then the goal is to get multiple invites out to special events
If you’re extremely comfortable then you should be getting paid for invites to places purely because you’re a fun person to be around
What is it that you do to get to this point?
How did the financial crisis affect investment banking in terms of outlook, pay, deal flow, etc?
During the crisis bonuses declined materially 50% decrease or even 0’s for bonuses.
After that it has recovered and pay is roughly in-line with historicals at 100% base as bonus.
Deal flow of course declines in a downturn, deal flow is now naturally up.
All of this can be found if you look at renaissance capital, they cover equity raises on a historical basis.
What are house-parties like post college? Are the girls still as fun, or will most start to look for more serious commitment? Do you find post-college house parties more enjoyable than the keggers back in university?
You can get any type of house party you like, which pretty much answers all of your questions.
If you find the crowd that parties and does drugs, you’ll unlikely be surrounded by serious commitment type women.
Hi. If I’m interested in one day starting my own operations-focused PE firm, is it better for me to get into sales and management roles rather than financial firms? I would use leverage in PE, but the firm would be operationally rather than financially-focused i.e. turnaround/improvement situations.
We have never created a PE shop so we are of no help. A few have worked in PE but that is all.
The only advice we can give is if you don’t have the money or contacts to raise money for your fund then you should start by solving that issue first. If people don’t trust you to run a PE firm the leverage will never come.
How can someone become fun to be around?
Study stand up comedians. Then take notes on people you know who excel in social situations.
Once you have a baseline you can then work on your own game.
Once you have tried to improve your social life for about a year then you’ll develop your own style. After that these questions won’t even need to be asked.
The last bit of advice is to find someone who has less to work with than you. If they are better looking/richer/smarter… Then they have a huge lead and you likely won’t learn much.
Regarding getting into relationships with women, I know babies and marriage contracts are a big no for a a fellow in his early 20s, but should I fear heartbreak?
Nice troll.But caught too fast. No one can possibly care about a girlfriend breaking up with them. people die, lose jobs and limbs. A girlfriend breakup shouldnt impact you at all.
Had a final round superday Friday, and did not send thank you’s same day, as the interview ended around 12:30.
1) was this bad not to send them?
2) should I send them Saturday, or wait until Monday?
No one cares about the thank you email so no it doesn’t hurt,
They decided already.
That said, just send them out anytime the next day to check the box.
Hey Guys,
Is there any way to access pitch books and fairness opinions from EDGAR? Are there any other sources where it might possible to find them?
Cheers!
Your best starting point for public info is merger agreements on sec.gov once deals are announced.
Many times they include pieces of the book or part of it.
Second best way is to make friends with analysts and ask for old books of pitches that were already done and completed.
Once you know what is in a book, there is no point in really reading them to be honest unless you work for the firm. Prioritizing incorrectly.
Thanks for the awesome blog, it’s always a great time readying and studying your blog.
Here’s my question:
What side jobs would you pick as a young man? i.e. summer jobs, side hustle, etc.
If you read our post on choosing a career the answer is clear. Any job that helps you get into sales or a front office revenue generating position is just fine.
You have to start at the bottom of the totem pole, but make a decision and build your resume from there.
Do you guys prefer morning or evening workouts?
Already covered in the Q&A
If you have a superday on a Friday with a MM for an off-cycle analyst spot… on what day would you say you’re definitely waitlisted/rejected?
The following Friday chances would drop to under 10%
Two weeks and you’re more likely than not out.
They send offers the same day or next day as the superday. If they don’t accept they usually get 1-2 weeks to decide before the bank goes to 2nd in-line.
Hi WSPB,
what are your thoughts on the game of golf and business dealings? is it mandatory if people are to take you seriously and what if you are better than your boss in golf? I’m not better than my boss but even my longer drives as he is much older than i am, makes him somewhat jealous.
Your thoughts?
Thanks!
It shouldn’t matter as long as you don’t act like a goof ball.
Ask yourself “am I making him like me more as a person” if yes then continue. If no, you better make a change immediately.
Only you know this answer.
Have any of you thought about what the future of Wall Street/American Finance will look like in 15, 20, 25 years? Will New York still be the center of World Finance, or will it have moved on to Asia/India?
I see a lot of very sharp minds on this blog. I am very interested (at 60+ years old) to read any thoughts on this. It seems to me that there is incredible talent here that could well be put to very lucrative use in other parts of the world. I’m thinking Singapore, Bangkok, Shanghai, and other growing financial centers.
Granted, English is the current language of business, but will it remain so? Remember, the US is currently teaching the up coming finance/business leaders of the future from around the world. Where will we fit in and how will we communicate? Computer translations may be part of the answer, but face to face cannot be beat.
That’s a pretty big topic and pretty much impossible to guess.
1) planning 10+ years is generally a impossible task. Think though your own life about 10 year plans and they usually don’t make sense. 3-5 year time frames are generally better
2) given that? Still see NYC as the hub. Too much money, too much talent and all the Chinese money is actually flowing to the USA. People complaining about purchases of buildings all cash? You can thank the Asian investors. In short? Follow the money it’s still coming here
3) culturally? The USA exports it. So therefore our media runs deeper, if your media and beliefs run deeper then you’re generally the person in charge
4) all that said, would see Asian and Indian markets becoming *larger* just not the main hub
That would be the high level comments. No one has any idea what will happen 20+ years from now, so we don’t like to play god.
Oh one extra one, we will bet that inflation will occur and things will cost more. That’s one we’d bet on!
Thanks for the reply. 3-5 year outlooks are very practical. It is interesting to get a younger, fresher mind viewpoint from right in the thick of things. I agree the World”s Capital flows are inward to the USA, more so in uncertain political times. We are seeing with the Chinese money inflows what was seen with the Japanese money in the 80’s. The cycle repeats.
Inflation never goes away, it just fluctuates but always upwards long term!
In your opinion , what is better , a slightly underrated science degree with a full ride scholarship , at a small school attended by plenty of rich kids, or a slightlly higher rated engineering degree with a debt of 25k USD from an institute attended mostly by middle and lower middle class kids ? ( Both the degrees are in computer science though )
Visit both career centers, if the options post graduation are exactly the same, then the answer is to attend the free school.
If it is different, then run the math and decide if it is worth it to attend the alternative.
We can’t answer this, the career centers will show you the facts
Hi guys,
I posted a comment 3 days ago with the same name (“Student”). Did it get in spam or something?
Thanks.
Likely marked as spam. If you post quickly or post links it will likely register as spam.
Try again without links (if any) or by simply allowing the page to load fully.
Hi guys,
I’m a 20 years old student living in Europe (not US citizen). I work as an online marketer and I manage to save monthly 500 EUR. I’ve been reading your blog for a couple of months and it helped me a lot with savings, office politics and personal development, so thank you for that. I have 3 questions for you:
1. As an online marketer in most cases you’re not in a revenue generating position and as far as I researched you can hardly make more than $100-$150k at 30 years old. Should I try to look more into sales (since I’m not interested in investment banking and starting a business is not my plan right now)? The downside is that it will mean to approach something new, as I already have 3-4 years experience as online marketer.
2. I have $10,000 in a bank account. Here in Europe you can’t really buy index funds (I was looking into buying SPY every month for the next couple of years) and the the tools / banks who offer you the possibility to invest into stocks / mutual funds have a high comission (1-3%). What should I do with my money? Should I just continue saving (and not invest) during college? Based on your last article holding cash is not very smart (as long as you have some saved money that can keep you “alive” a few months).
3. I plan to move to U.S. after I finish college. My plan now is to save money and try to make relationships in my working field with people from U.S. Based on my first question, are there any tips you have regarding my path / plan?
Best,
A student.
1. We cannot answer as it is unrelated to our field. If it is true that you will never make more than $100K then there is really no point in doing it. Again we do not know anything about that space so we are not good people to ask.
2. You have $10K in the bank, that won’t last you more than 6 months so better to keep in cash/money market accounts.
3. Again unfortunately we do not give out bad advice… so we can’t help again. You should find people in the field you’e looking to switch into.
In short, sorry we can’t help more but it really makes no sense to ask us. We focus on Wall street in the USA and you’re looking for Marketing in Europe. Neither of those overlap. Find a guy in the sales profession you’re thinking about joining and build a relationship there.
Only #2 we can help with which is easily no brainer to keep it in cash since $10K would be wiped out in a crisis.
Hey WSPB,
I was at a breakfast this morning with a very wealthy man and he asked me “As a budding financier, where do you see the market going”. How would you recommend answering such a question? Is there anything I can read online or a book you would recommend that I could read in order to gain a strong foundation of knowledge to answer such a broad question?
If he forces you to answer that, then simply figure out what his opinion is first.
What you do is name some macro items that are going on. Watch his body language. When he shows positive agreement to one of the macro terms that is “where you think the market is going”.
Get it?
The game is the same. The “right answer” is always “what does this guy want to hear”. If you know the guy is net short, say you think its going down. If he is net long say its going up. The whole goal of the interaction is to get them to like you. Just like politics and religion. Just say what is going to work.
Do you mind giving examples of some of the current macro items that are going on currently?
1) interest rates
2) oct change bond buying
3) Europe/Russia crisis – war etc
4) price to sales/p/e metrics on the market
5) flow of funds rates
These should be easily known since your junior year in college. If these don’t pop to the top of your mind it means you’re not prepared to be brutally honest.
I wanted to get your guys’ perspective on taking on debt for medical school vs. working on wall street. I’m a sophomore at Stanford, in a fraternity, and a red pill man. Essentially, I am committed to success in both the financial and social aspects of my life. I love the site and wanted to get your thoughts as we share similar interests (money, girls, working out, drugs, minimalism).
If money is your goal there is no point in going to medical.
We already covered this topic in our post on careers. (please use the search function).
Sidebar – congrats on being part of the classic acronym… HYPSM!
I am going to graduate spring of 2015 with an economics degree at a B school (3.9 GPA). Also looking forward to doing an internship arranged through my university during the spring semester. I enjoy doing econometric research (macro and micro) and would prefer being in a research division at an investment bank.
How would I go about breaking in to the research division of a major investment bank?
Should I get a Masters in Econ/Stats? Masters in something else? PhD?
By research we assume you mean something such as equity research? In that case no change.
Your application process is no different than banking. When recruiting season hits apply to everything related to 1) equity research and 2) anything related to capital markets rotational program.
Your best bet is the same, finance, top school, apply. Just be aware that your career is highly tied to your analyst and less tied to the bank.
Currently I work a job that primarily serves as my living cost/insurance vehicle as well as a transit point for a career change (makes for a good resume line item). I don’t make great money, but its a 45 hour a week job that I can do in 20 hours and utilize the rest of the time to work on developing the skills I need to either switch to a more lucrative job or setup my business.
Here is the current choice I face:
1) On my side gig as a musician, I made a really good contact with a few out of town execs from a very large consultancy group. One of them followed through and emailed me training guides and tutorials (difficult but I can learn it) would enable me to potentially work for them in 3-6 months. This will triple my current pay in about 2-3 years (independent research on similar positions with the company).
2) Stay focused on developing the skills I need to follow through on my business idea, which may not bear any significant financial fruit for a few years.
Either way I’m learning the skills I need 5-10 years down the line (same field), so there is no bad option. My question is whether working a large firm, making contacts and a sizable income (which can be reinvested into any future business) and waiting to build a business is a better choice for a guy in his early twenties versus starting to build one right now, while there is a situation where my life situation affords me sufficient and sustainable income, and a lot of time.
What are your thoughts?
In this case option one sounds better.
Why?
It is only a 6 monh investment for a 3x return in 3 years. So that’s your golden parachute. After that you go back to number 2.
There is no reason to take undue risk with that return profile.
In short, option 1 opens more doors.
i’m currently in portfolio management in an investment analyst role. I work along side 2 traders and a portfolio manager. I was hired partially because of my experience and that they saw a promising career for me down the road as one of the traders and the portfolio manager will be considering retirement in less than 5 years. They have asked me to do the CFA. I’ve already committed my time to obtain my MBA and CPA designations. The next level from my current position is the trader role. Should I pursue the CFA? I’ve spent the last several years already pursuing designations and want to make my money work for me in investing in stocks and/or private businesses. Which is the better option? 1. pursue the CFA and hope a promotion materializes when people start retiring 2. spend my spare time meeting with business owners for a stake in their company on the weekends/weeknights?
Is CFA a must have for buy side professionals?
Thanks!
A CFA, CPA and MBA are all unnecessary for a lot of roles in Wall Street.
That said the answer is obvious. If you believe they will promote you in 5 years to a major role with responsibility… Get the CFA and ignore the other credentials.
Always choose responsibility of workload over degrees.
So have a heart to heart see if they even care about the CPA and the MBA. If the answer is no? Well you know what to do then.
Every so often a beautiful woman will look deep into your eyes (usually close to insertion) and implore you with “You’re not going to leave me are you?”
As a man, you have the natural urge to give them reliable data and information, “Well, given my nature it seems that we will have a fantastic time, be absolutely in love and have mind-altering sex for about 3-6 months. Maybe even a year. And then yes, I will most likely leave.”
I have learned that women don’t necessarily have the goal of passing information in conversation, and instead want to transfer emotions and feels.
With that logic, is it reasonable for me to instead reply “Of course not babe. You’re the only one. I will be with you till our bones and my sperm have decayed and become a part of Exxon’s new oil discoveries, aeons from today.”?
Girls just get lost in the moment because they have poor control of their emotions. So in short yes go ahead and say whatever she wants to hear, if it works out later it works out if it doesn’t it doesn’t. No point in shooting yourself in the foot when things are getting “emotional”.
Got a laugh over here with the Exxon joke
Hey I just wanted to thank you guys and mention that you guys are an inspiration and I consider your advice as free mentor-ship. So my story which has been told before I’m an accountant @ big 4 and essentially this is not what I want to do for the rest of my life and just don’t enjoy the work so I need to leave. I’m interested in one day starting my own business which would be my exit i.e. Startup/Investment firm. I’ve reached out in the past and was recommended it would be a two leap jump i.e. to banking/mgt consulting/any front office role or to get my MBA to break into VC or PE world. So meanwhile I’ve been applying to diferent analyst roles and business developments roles at startups. I’ve been working on my network and essentially I might have hit the a really good source but I need to know how to address properly. Essentially I have a friend who is on pretty good terms with a PE partner and thankfully we’ve met during an fitness activity we both have in common. My friend recommended that I reach out to him and see how it goes. Just wondering how should I approach don’t want to essentially overstep asking for too much. Should I still take the approach of asking for advice or just flat out asking if he’s hiring. As of right now just was going reach saying Hey I’ve worked here Big 4 Firm for x years, I’ve liked it learned x,y,z but I really got into accounting to start and manage a business which I don’t feel would be possible staying here. I’m looking to transition into the PE/VC space to use those skills learned and learn more about a,b,c. Do you have any advice on how I should approach this transition? When I talked to Mutual friend who as you know is my mentor he mentioned to me to contact you since you have many years in the financial field and could offer advice or point me in the direction of someone who could offer advice on how to approach my scenario. My linked in is http://www.linkedin.com/me if you wanted to look further into and my cell phone is xxx-xxx-xxxx if you would rather speak on the phone. Thanks for the advice hope to see you at (Mutual place of interest) soon and insert joke poking at mutual friend. I don’t want to sound long winded and too desperate I feel that might be too much. I now you guys offer harsh truth so lay it on me. Thanks!
Wrote a long answer but honestly your post does not make much sense.
1) did you meet this PE contact yes or no? To be crystal clear here, saying hello at the gym or at a tennis match does not count for anything, it needs to be an actual conversation 10-15+ minutes.
2) if yes did he like you? yes or no?
Once you answer those two here are the answers back.
1) If you met him already. Cut to the chase. 3-4 short sentences MAXIMUM about what you want and ask nicely if he can help you “get your foot in the door”
2) If you did not meet him already then you need to meet him first before wasting his time with an email if he doesn’t know who you are
3) If BOTH are yes, then meet him in person and again use the same 3 sentences.
Finally, yes your friends are right. Go to FO then to PE/VC after is your best chance.
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EDIT: Also do not ask us to review your email. Ask your friend who already works with him how to approach it. Making jokes about someone he already likes is pretty much asking to be thrown into the garbage (that’s an opinion so you better be sure).
Thanks, yes we’ve met and have had conversations before. Our convos were never about work mostly focused on current events, mutual friends, and the sport we have in common which he would ask me for advice in since I’ve been training the sport longer. My friend pretty much conveyed the same message was to reach out see if he has any suggestions, knows anyone, or any firms.
Just wanted to make sure even though I have a rapport with him that I came off professional since he knows me more as the funny kid at the gym and looking at his track record was a little intimidating (Senior Partner MidSize PE firm, Board member to some well known companies etc). I assume that it will go fine, I just like to get your advice on things since it could potential be a great opportunity or lead to other great networking resources.
In that case run your three sentence short pitch by your friend then ask the PE MD in person if he has advice/if he can help.
Talking to him in person will be significantly more impactful than an email
If you have a positive relationship, sounds like you do, then you should be fine.
Good luck!
In principle, the short term relationship sounds great… but the very nature of deciding to pursue a relationship means there is something about her that stands out. How do you keep from getting attached yourself and being able to let go? How do you train yourself to become the person who can get close to people without getting torn up when it’s time to end it.
As soon as you consistently argue then you simply move on.
Relationships should not require any work at all. If they do its time to exit because stress is not a useful quality in anyone’s life.
If someone is actually wasting your time and making you annoyed you have to cut the cord. This applies to friends as well. There is nothing negative about it, you simply tell them “it has been great but this isn’t working out” and move on.
I told part of my story in another post, to recap: 30 years old, a bit of debt, been working in “IT” as a government contractor for the past four or five years. Moved out to DC for school and work. No father, mother was in and out growing up, had no guidance so I screwed up my twenties. Smart, quick with numbers but not where I could be in life. Now I’ve got a work ethic, but I’m not sure if it’s too late.4\
Is it irrational for me to pursue a career in Wall Street and are there just too many hurdles? I am going to school either way, but is finance even a choice worth considering?
Math
Using potential gross minimums, working until 48 (as example).
Finance:
Initial Income – 85K (working this year), no “income” outside of internships until graduating with MBA.
Associate (150K * 3 Years), VP (200K * 4 years), SVP (400K * 5 years) = ~3.5 Million Base.
Hedge Fund: Would be the look I would go for after being in the space awhile.
Tech:
Initial Income – 85K, Year off, 110K * 5 Years
Offensive Security (115K * 6 Years), Senior Role (125K * 6 Years) = ~2 Million Base. If I got into management or got some equity, could change dramatically.
I would be trading in some initial income for better future earnings, this is if my math is not flawed.
Looking for brutal honesty. Is it worth even considering and can I even get into a career in finance?
The only way to get in is if you’re at a top MBA school. If not then it will be excruciatingly difficult.
To keep things simple, your salary/compensation numbers are incorrect in your estimates as well. Base salaries are wrong and total compensation would be higher on average if you are doing well in the space. There is no point in discussing pay until you have a job in hand though.
So in short, if you’re at a top MBA program yes you have a chance. Associate age range is generally the widest 25-35. If you’re at a no-name MBA the chances go to nearly zero as a Top MBA is required versus undergraduate where you can rely more on networking if you went to a decent but non-target school. MBA recruiting is much more strict.
Is top-MBA, top-10 (Booth, UCLA, NYU, Columbia) or top-3 (W/H/S)
In your opinion, assuming I can get into a top MBA, would it be wise to pursue a career? I know you guys generally advise against switches spaces, but then again, I’m not really on a career-track with this contracting. I’m pretty much starting from scratch no matter what I do.
One thing I’m not interest in is being average and over the past year I’ve become extreme in my quest to not be.
Sorry for the overload, once more question.
How would you spin it to obtain a summer internship at a boutique (say in the DC/Baltimore area, but I’ll go anywhere)? What can I do this school year to make sure I position myself for one.
This is my first year, at a two-year college (I got into a state university but I decided against it. Looking to transfer to NYU or Columbia if possible).
Your questions are not making much sense.
1) get offers to top MBA schools first then see if you’d have a fighting chance.
That is all, there is no step 2 because without knowing what MBA schools have admitted you it will be of no use to give advice.
If your background is in IT it would make more sense to target technology as a sector.
Ah ok. So while I am still in undergraduate, should I focus on hard networking and pursuing any summer financial internships I can get (especially until I transfer to a better school).
Yes you are thinking far, far, far too much in advance.
Fix what can be fixed now, top grades, correct major, correct work positions and see where you flush out when you’re done.
There is no point in planning for year 5 if you haven’t already properly executed year one.
The truth about planning is this: If you do everything correctly every year, your options in the next few years are going to change.
So focus on what needs to be done today. Asking “what if” when there is no bid is a waste of time.
Dear wallstreetplayboys
I am a 24 year old sophomore at a decent community college. I have a 3.0 gpa so chances are I won’t transfer to a top tier university. I will probably major in business finance or marketing but I have hit a crossroads. If I continue my path to x university I won’t graduate with a ba until I am 27. Even then I’m not guaranteed anything when I graduate . Do you think its worth me dedicating the next 3 years of my life to this? I’ve made a pretty big mess of my life so far and I am just so behind the curve that I am lost. I don,t know what I should be doing anymore. Would you have any advice for a guy like me who is just trying to be successful one day.
Thanks
It makes more sense to go ahead and pick up a trade or go to the oil sands from a pure financial basis.
Picking up a trade can range from air traffic controller, to medical type work (xray, phlebotomy, etc).
Going to a mediocre school and picking up debt to do it does not make any sense whatsoever. If you had a full ride it would make more sense, but it does not sound like that is in the cards unless you’re an amazing athlete at your CC.
Well I am fortunate enough that my parents are willing to pay for my tuition. So I will not incur any debt, but even still I wonder if it’s the right thing. My dad owns a small real estate firm and I have always had the option of getting my license and working with him but if I am not successful in the niche I have nothing to fall back on. Also going to a trade school has always crossed my mind but honestly I don’t have any real passions. Any trade I get into will be purely for financial reasons.
The truth is your family has completely spoiled you.
You should go into the real estate firm instead. Going to a mediocre school, making your parents pay $40K+ only to get a 9-5 job does not make sense.
Go into a revenue generating career ASAP. if you can do that now then its a no brainer.
On a glance it does not look like you work very hard at all. A 3.0 at a CC is honestly unacceptable if your parents are footing the bill for everything. At your age you need to become your own man start working for yourself and cut off the faucet.
Your best bet to cutting off the faucet is developing real skills in sales/real estate and going from there.
Your right. You see this is why I follow your blog. You have the balls to say shit other people won’t say. I appreciate the advice.
Hi guys, just a post idea – I think it’d be great if you could make a post on how to make a strong Linkedin profile, with a focus on finance.
Also, this is a brilliant and one of a kind blog, thank you for your work.
Believe there is a post on this already need to double check.
Basically:
1) Linked in should not lead to top jobs, it should be used to get competing offers
2) Your best options are always real referrals with people who have worked with you previously which is why you never burn bridges
3) LNKD is generally good if you’re trying to get a job and were recently laid off
4) LNKD in strategy is really simple. 1) photo is professional with you in a suit, 2) Connect with anyone and everyone so recruiters start viewing your profile – wash rinse repeat.
Hi, thank you for the outline of the strategy! Do you guys believe in a simple profile or sth with more text, ie having a summary, detailed description of roles etc.?
Copy paste your top 2 bullets of your resume. So slightly shorter is usually better.
If only one job is legitimate put all the bullets on there and put 2 bullets from the less important jobs.
Again its a numbers game, LNKD is not great for top positions, you want real referrals.
Thanks!
Just started IBD Full Time couple of weeks ago, and find myself not doing much during the dad, averaging about 75 hours per week, asked the associates on the deal I with if there’s anything they need help with, and answer is typically “no”.
1) Are these hours normal for a BB?
2) How often should I ask the associate I am with if there’s anything he needs me to do?
3) how to develop trust quickly so try can put more things on my plate?
4) What to do in downtime to improve as an IBD analyst?
1) yes you just started so you have no trust yet. It will build over time
2) no more than 1-2x every 2 weeks no need to annoy them. If they are giving you one word responses you are becoming a nuisance. You want to be eager, not annoying and that is a social skill you’ll have to learn there is no “always do this” play by how they react 1-2x is simply an example but it could be as low as 1 every 2 weeks or even longer. Again don’t annoy them
3) You can’t. The best thing you can do is create error free work with whatever you get. If you make mistakes on simple stuff like a quals book you’re not going to get more work. Simply put it takes time just like everything else
4) This one is easy, go through old books old templates and try to recreate them. If you can create old books again *flawlessly* you’re going to get ahead.
It sounds like you’re over eager, in this case be careful about annoying the bankers. At the end of the day, the best work goes to the person who 1) doesn’t make mistakes and even MORE importantly 2) they like
Does a 35 year old with one child with a 100 grand liquid, 20 grand invested on index funds and a job with a salary of 40 plus grand still has a shot to become a millionaire? what advice would you give him because everything you write is true however I feel like I’m late to the party. I need your advice because according to everything that you wrote I’m done.
Start a business or go into sales is the best bet based on the situation you describe.
You need revenue leverage. If you can save that much off of $40K it is clear spending is not your problem, you need to generate income and it’s not going to come from a $40K a year salary.
Find a way to add ASAP.
how do you deal with passive aggressive people/bosses in the workplace?
Generally passive aggressive people are in two forms.
1) they are insecure: in that case complement them on what they are insecure about. They will be shocked you find that part of them endearing, they like you more and you’ll be set.
2) if it has been a long duration. 1 year plus. It means they striaght do not like you and you have lost a branch from a political basis. Read the post on office politics, probably the most important post on this blog. If it has gotten worse over a year plus never seen anyone turn that ship around. If they don’t matter in the office (for your next promotion) then who cares and laugh it off. If they are important and will block you from the next level. Switch jobs ASAP.
How can someone become funny and develop a sense of humor? Someone who people find hilarious.
Use the same three items for improvement on any subject:
Read, Practice, Observe.
Find books on the type of humor you want to improve upon. Record yourself practicing said humor to make sure you have the right tone and finally, observe successful comedians and copy their mannerisms.
Dear cats at Wall Street playboys.
I’m British and looking to start a career in stockbroking. I’ve been offered an interview for this position can you advise me as to wether it is a good move or not, pays the equivalent to $35,000 and gets me into the finance game. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
We do not do this type of Q&A or else everyone will ask “what are their chances” or “is this a good position” over and over in the comments.
Also link was removed as we, again, do not allow these types of questions.
So you guys don’t eat 4,5,6 times a day like the bodybuilders right? You guys just eat 3 times a day right?
Yes.
How would you recommend a shy college student increase his salesmanship?
Obtain a job that requires cold calling to generate income. No substitute for actual practice.
Hey WSP,
I am stuck in a bit of a predicament. This summer I interned at a small M&A boutique (not NYC) as a sophomore. This past week, I received an email from them asking if I would be interested in a full-time position. I am about to start my junior year and my intention was to work on Wall Street at either a BB or EB. I would love to work at this small boutique; however, their infrastructure is not very strong for training interns and analysts. What would your advice be? Take the offer now from the boutique or try get an internship in NYC?
This is not a predicament at all. You’re only a Junior, ie: 2 years away from graduation.
Say thank you and that you’ll certainly consider it but want to wait out the full year. Then recruit for other internships and if you don’t get anything go back to the bank and work another summer there.
90%+ sure you’ll get a internship at a BB/EB this summer so just take that and run with it.
If you see positions on job boards open for a number of banks and you don’t necessary have a personal/alumni connection to the bank.
What is your process in determining who to cold email/what type of format do you lay out for something on a specific position?
Read our post on recruiting as a non-target
All of these are exactly the same 3 sentences
1) Hi name, info
2) interested in xxx position because of background in xxx believe I’m a good fit
3) I have attached résumé and look forward to chatting soon
Name
That’s it for every single networking item.
“Hi, name. I am xxx I can offer xxx, which helps because of xxx, for details seey résumé”
Send only to people who can get you hired, VP and above on Wall Street. Associates and analysts are useless unless you two are close friends and he/she is loved within the bank.
Is a stockbroker the same as salesperson in sales & trading?
Unlikely unless it is different out in the UK. Ask about responsibilities and look up the chain to be sure.
Hey WSP
Do you have any ideas on how to get easy out of your bed? I’m not bad at waking up in the morning, but I don’t seem to manage to get out my bed (especially when I don’t have to be somewhere because I work at home at the moment). I do get lots done during the day (until late 11pm) but I feel guilty for waking up at 10 to 11am sometimes.
I know that my distraction in the morning is my phone (mails, facebook, twitter, messages,…), so maybe it would be wise to eliminate all distractions/electronics in my bedroom?
Thanks for reading,
Rob
You answered your own question. Eliminate all the distractions and go to bed earlier and earlier until your body adjusts.
I read the James Altucher blog entirely. He says that the whole wallstreet thing is a scam. Any thoughts? how do you protect yourself from losing all of your money that you have invested in wallstreet?
Dollar cost average into ETFs with low fees (10bps or less). Never sell. Keep some cash to keep doing the same if there is a recession. That is all you have to do.
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EDIT: We have a post on this… on the front page of the blog (today) and at the very top of this page linking to the post… Yet you’re asking the same question. Not sure why that is but we won’t be answering fear mongering questions like this in the future. It will be a direct link back to the same post from now on and 10 years from now as well. The answer will never change.
Thoughts on keeping part of the 6 month living expense in items like musical instruments (in their depreciated/quick sale value) that can be sold fairly easily over ebay/craigslist? I figure I could keep the financial cushion in case of shit-hit-the-fan, while also enjoying them.
Does not make sense, if you have a liquidity event you’re going to give your self additional stress. 1) liquidity event will cause a lot of stress + 2) now you have to organize all the sales.
6 months of living expenses is really not much to save up and leave in a savings account.
This is probably a menial task – but what do you put on the subject of a cold email where the bank has a position open on its website? This is with best chances of good first impression and them opening the mail.
Resume for (Group) (division) (position)
Example: Resume for Healthcare Investment Banking Analyst
Keep it simple, if sent like that, they may assume it was from an internal email and open it to see the resume. If they open it, that is 50% of the battle anyway.
I was interested in finance as an engineer. I was running game one night and met someone from Merrill Lynch in Wealth Management (internship for the summer). Sent my resume and she promised me an interview when it gets closer to summer and they start hiring.
It’s not where I’d to be and I read the transition (tier 4 to 3) is really hard. Though it’s a summer internship and at least it will put me in front of the right people and give me a solid internship.
Is this a solid step to take to get into Trading/Sales/Tier 1 2 3?
If you have no finance experience that is always a better step than no experience.
If you can, always try to go straight into a top tier position.
At the end of the day it is all about your options. In short, take it if it is the best thing you can get on the finance side. Just remember that jumping from WM to the other positions is quite difficult.
Definitely. I tried a few engineering internships. Not for me. I’ll see if i enjoy the finance side.
Sounds like next year I should hustle my ass off for a top tier analyst position somewhere if I do decide to go this route.
Thanks.
In your experience , is someone, who has not gone for an engineering degree, but rather a science degree, completely doomed when it comes to making money, especially when engineers from India and China are there a dime a dozen ?
No. You are only out of luck if you choose a career that doesn’t pay well.
It is about how you earn money not a scribbled major on a piece of paper.
Getting into engineering is likely more difficult without an engineering major so simply choose a different career. Spin your resume + get work experience + take relevant classes on the side.
What would you suggest is the best way to improve expressing your thoughts on a concise basis.
I find that I can think to myself very clearly about a concept or problem, but when it comes to speaking it out loud, I tend to ramble and go all over the place. Any recommendations?
In this case you should give more presentations and put yourself in a position to give presentations.
This can be a sales pitch, actual presentation for school/work, telling a story to a group of kids, etc.
People who ramble are generally bad presenters because a presentation forces you to boil things down to the important points. It is good you caught this habit because rambling is a bad habit that could hurt your career.