Over on the Ask Us Anything section we’re starting to see the same questions come up. This post is going to address why the advice won’t change and how we can save time together.
1) How Do I improve my Diet? We have covered diet advice in a post. If you haven’t taken a look then go ahead and read the post. If you’re slogging 80 hours a week you need to be efficient and as we stated before, if you don’t want to read the post, here’s the basic outline:
Breakfast: Fruit + Protein. Worst case a protein shake in the AM and a banana/fruit bowl on your way to work
Lunch: If you have a high paying job, lunch is used to improve your political positioning so you always eat with people so suck up the $10-12 meals
Dinner: You can get $25+ from your company, do not waste it on unhealthy food. Most people will eat terribly which starts the downward spiral. There are hundreds of options online using seamless. If you don’t have to work late… then make your meal at home after your day is done.
By doing this you guarantee 2/3 of your main meals are healthy. Lunch may be hit or miss, but if you’re smart all 3 will be perfectly fine and you won’t break the bank.
2) What Bank do I Join? Again this question misses the point by a country mile. The question is, which bank will allow me to get promoted the fastest. If you have no idea which bank then go by the rule of thumb
Elite Boutique (Moelis, Qatalyst, Centerview, Evercore, Lazard, etc.)
Bulge Bracket (Goldman, Morgan Stanley, Citi, etc.)
Middle Market (Jefferies, Piper Jaffray, etc.)
No-Name Banks (simply make sure it is the same job function)
No, we will not get into a back and forth about “what exactly is E-Boutique versus not” it is up to you to make that decision but if you’ve done your due diligence the answer will be extremely obvious. If they pay above top bonuses at a bulge bracket… it’s an E-boutique. If it pays the same as a BB… it’s probably smarter to choose the BB.
After your very first job none of this matters at all anymore. From that point forward you choose the firm that is going to promote you the fastest. Think smart. It is about responsibility not prestige.
“F*** prestige get money”
Put that quote on your cubicle. People who obsess over prestige have never had a long career on Wall Street. Maximum of maybe 5 years. To put the nail in the coffin check out one of two blogs we recommend (we only recommend Danger and Play and Financial Samurai). Click on FS’s blog… notice something? He started at a top shop but his real money came in after getting promoted and generating a ton of revenue. **hint hint**
3) When Should I Work Out? Well do you even work out? If you’re under 30 years old and you don’t work out 6 days a week you’ve already lost in the first place. If you have been working out 6 days a week, you probably already have a healthy routine! See how that works? So the question is not when you should work out it is if you even work out in the first place. We got this question many times and the answer when pushed is exactly the same.
If you work on the East Coast you go to the gym first thing in the morning. If you work on the West Coast you go to the gym after work.
You can feel free to change this if you’re a morning person or a night owl but it really misses the point. The point is this:
“There is no science, there is simply consistency.”
Consistency is how you keep yourself honest. If you can make it to the gym every single day and lift correctly, you’re going to see gains.
4) What Do You Think About the Stock Market Levels? Always the same answer, do not care at all. You should not care if the S&P is at 1,700 or 2,000… simply dollar cost average into cheap ETFs such as VOO, SPY etc.
If you’re trying to beat the stock market and you only have a half million dollars or so in the bank, you’re wasting your time. $500K in the bank to invest is pretty much a waste of effort. It means if you beat the bench mark by call it 5% that is only $25K. You may as well go and chase real revenue in a business. $25K for 10+hours a week is only $48/hour… That is significantly worse than what you’re making on the job anyway.
If the economy collapses? It doesn’t matter again. Generally recessions last about a year so you simply sit around and take the extra cash that was on the sidelines and buy any time there is a large correction. Your cash was on the sidelines because you want to continue buying through the dips so you get lower entry prices. Maybe you lost your job for a few months. No big deal. You had cash on the side to keep buying and get your next position.
If the market goes up 20%? Great already exposed getting richer!
What if inflation goes “crazy”? Again already own assets… getting richer! Only poor people think inflation is a bad thing.
5) I Make $50K and I am X Years Old What Do I Do? Some tough love and inspiration at the same time. First why in the world did you do this to yourself? If you look around there is money everywhere. A weekend in a high cost city driving an Uber will net you $30+ an hour. That is an extremely low estimate and yet that gets you an extra $60K per year. Why is it an *extra* 60K per year? Well, if you’re not working at least 80 hours per week and you’re broke, you have no one to blame but yourself. Anyone who believes they should be rich working 40 hours a week is going to be in for a rude awakening.
If you attempt to come back with the “but i’m smart” argument, you’re going to get laughter on this side of the web. Why? If you were actually *smart but lazy* you wouldn’t be broke in the first place right? It is much smarter to control what you can control. Go ahead and start slogging those long hours because at some point everyone pays their dues.
Finally, to put the nail in the coffin on this one… If you believe that anything over 40 hours is “too much work” then how exactly are you going to catch up to someone better than you putting in more time? If Person A is working 60 hours a week making $100K per year and you’re working 40 hours a week making $50K… You’re already making significantly less than Person A on an “hourly basis” and there is no way you’re going to catch up by working less and learning less.
Get to the grind!
6) Does Money Attract Women? Yes. Anyone who says otherwise has never made a good amount of money. Here is a general guideline since the question is asked so frequently:
$50K or less: it will be a negative to your sex life because you are not making enough
$50K – $100K: in a regular city this will be perfectly fine, in a major city it is still a detriment to your sex life
$100K-$175K: in a regular city you’re doing well, in a major city it now has no negative or positive impacts to your sex life
$175-$250K: Positive impact to your sex life in practically every city
$250-500K: Significant positive, less because of your life but because of the value of your time. At this point you’re extremely busy, you’re traveling, you’re not available, these are traits that will make you incredibly attractive. It won’t be possible to fake these trips/traits.
$500K+: It is practically impossible to blow through this type of money with common sense and everything in the previous tier are truer.
$1M+: If you can make this income at any point in your life you’re set. Your life changes because all of your actions value your time and comfort. You fly business/first class and do not care. You live a life that is impossible to fake.
Given the range and scope of this blog, it is certainly possible to get to $250-500K (before mid 30′s of course). This is achievable for anyone who wants it. When you start pushing up on high 6 figures and 7 figure numbers, you’re going to have to do something special.
Finally, there is no need to bother asking people like us. You can check out James Altucher’s blog, a multi-millionaire, who comes to the same conclusion… money gets girls.
(Caveat: before all the guys who live on shoestring budgets come in, yes you still need some social skills. That is about it though. If you don’t have some sort of social disease you’re going to be perfectly fine if you ever obtain large amounts of money)
7) Can You Hire Me? No
8) Are You Writing a Book? Maybe, not enough page views as of today. Creating a book that will take a long amount of time. It is certainly not worth it for a 5 figure payoff.
9) Industry Overview on XXX Sector? Probably, these are for Wall Street folk and the blog is currently a ~50/50 split it seems. This means it’s likely but no promises.
10) Resume Reviews? Nope! Hate them.
11) Can You Redesign the Blog? 100% agree needs to be re-done, no time-table yet though.
2) I am XX years old What do i Do to break in? We also get this one far too many times here’s the general guideline. Unless you have something spectacular you are holding back, this is the backdrop.
Analyst: If you are 25 years old or younger, keep gunning for an entry level slot as an analyst. This means you pass CFA level 1 if you have absolutely no finance experience to prove you understand the basics and then you get straight to networking. If you’re at a non-target then read our post on how to network/recruit. Now if you are from a no name school, no work experience and low GPA. You have next to no shot and are better off going to get an MBA later in life. This is the truth. As a non-target or older candidate with no experience, you need to have something to bring to the table otherwise you will lose time and time again to 22 year old candidates with banking internships, top GPAs and a great school.
Associate: If you are 26-33 years old this is your second chance to break in. If you have nothing related to finance, probably best to get an MBA.
Vice President and Above: Likely 33+ years old and you’re making a switch from a revenue generating career. In this case you should already know if you’re well qualified. Generally speaking, if you’re in a sales role or run a product line at a firm and are paid $300K+… You’re likely a good fit (this is general as most people who are in this slot know if they have the skills to move to the sell-side or not)
There you have it, it will answer 99% of questions. If you’re young you simply network and spin your resume assuming you have some skills that are transferable. If you’re in your late 20s you’re likely better off with a top MBA.
23 yrs old working in middle-office position at a BB IB been there <1 year.
1) Do you recommend staying a year if the main goal is to break into an IB program somewhere?
2) Shoot for lateraling in at the BB or look elsewhere at a MM/Boutique?
2a) How to approach internal networking "safely"?
3) IB or Corporate Development/Strategy?
Stateschool Non-target 3.6 GPA
If you want to get into IB as an Analyst you have until you’re about ~25-26 at the latest. So you’re on a short leash already.
Your best bet is going to be lateral (down) to a smaller bank. Chances of moving from MO to front office in a bulge bracket is small and unlikely worth the effort. Essentially would not recommend internal switch/lateral as it is harder than it looks.
Note sure what you mean by the third question? If you’re trying to do corporate development that is usually after 2 years of IBD experience (for the good corp dev positions).
Assuming the gameplan is to save/invest all of 1st year analyst’s bonus, how would you budget out the rest of the $70,000 salary? What’s your take on living by yourself vs living with other first year analyst in the same group (do not know anyone in the city)?
Already covered, definitely get a roomate. The first year is the worst you’re going to crack 100+ hours several times.
Save what you can but ~$60K in base in NYC + a roomate is breakeven.
Hypothetically.
-You tried to break in to the IB Analyst program as a Ops intern, failed
-You interviewed at 2-3 MM banks, came close, but no cigar
-Ended up full time middle office position in the IB at a BB, for now (first year)
-Have internal several connections made from networking as an intern in the IB (3-4 director level, couple of analyst/associate level, and i sit on a banking floor). Have 2-3 extremely high level HR connects, and a couple other non-IB very high connects in the company.
-Internal Job search software is existent
-End goal is Investment Banking, and soon.
How do you approach this situation?
Well this one is easy. Similar to a few others, like the office politics article, your best bet is to jump down to a smaller bank from your MO role to a boutique or MM bank.
You can try to switch internally but it is low probability.
Firstly wanted to thank you guys for writing great posts. I had a game related question:
How much do you think race matters if you’re trying to attract women from a different ethnicity/background? What kind of experiences/feedback have you guys had trying to attract women from a different ethnicity?
Two points
1. To answer your question. Looks are pretty much the trip card and yes your ethnicity is part of your looks. A good looking guy can bang chicks without any game. Stand, get eye contact chat for a few minutes and they take the girl home. So yes ethnicity is a major major factor. Now more importantly…
2. Control the controlables. Unless you want to go Michael Jackson on your skin there is literally NOTHING you can do about your ethnicity. Zero. What you can do is control what you can control. Read out post on game by ethnicity. You can control your tone of voice, your body language, your clothing, how much muscle you have and how you interact with women (ie: game).
So basically it matters a ton but the catch is you can’t do anything about it so don’t waste your time talking about race with anyone. So what you can to fix your own life. If people assume X about you becuase you are Y nationality… Well better fix or take advantage of their assumption.
You get no points by complaining or wondering about it on the Internet.
Thanks for the reply fellas! I guess I just gotta accept what is and accept the fact that it is always gonna take me more approaches to close the deal, and continue to maximize my own potential through gym, fashion etc. Keep posting great material.
Curious, what are the minimum qualifications of the writers on WSP? Analyst? Associate? Minimum number of years on the street?
If you want to contribute you can send us your background and we will decide if the background is strong enough.
<3 years of experience is definitely not good enough. 10+ years and no doubt you can add value.
If you started your own hedge fund at 21 and are wealthy then exceptions will be made.
Is it possible to get a post on how to maintain emotional detachment in all relationships (especially ones with females)?
There is a large difference between emotional death and control of your emotions we recommend the latter. No emotions at all = death to your personality and vibe. We suggest you read our post on controlling emotions.
Let’s say that you had a great internship your sophomore year of college, but nothing junior year. You acknowledge that it is your fault, as you are completely responsible for all of your actions. However, a major contributing factor to this were some emotional/family issues that built up and made you depressed for a year or so. You got decent grades, completed a term as Treasurer of the Student Body (which you emphasize), but still, no internship. You got some last minute plans together, but they all fell through.
What would be the best way to explain this gap in your resume? Should you leave it as a curt “I had plans that fell through, so I made use of my time by doing XYZ”
or
attack it head on a put a positive spin, like
“I had some serious family issues that distracted me. I got some plans together but, they fell through. However, as a result of this I have incredible resilience and self belief. Those are two of the most important attributes for this world”
Thanks a lot
Get an internship right now.
If you’re trying to get a job on Wall Street the recruiting season is practically over. Internship recruiting is going at full force/finishing up as well.
If you can’t get a full time offer, get an internship for the summer.
There are three major life choices: 1) your school of choice and major, 2) your first job and 3) your income at age 30.
Those re the biggest life changes so do whatever you have to do to secure a good job. If it means pushing graduation by half a year, you should look into it. Telling people, especially bankers who juggle marriages as well about your personal issues is not going to fly very far in an interview unless you get lucky and he/she was in the same situation.
Tl;dr get an internship ASAP and tart networking. The gap is there, you can simply say your summer option fell through because of x.
Thanks a lot. I am networking like a fiend.
why does your income at age 30 matter so much?
By 30 you should have your financial situation set, 30’s for men is equivalent to 20’s for women. You should be care free and less worried about cash and more worried about doing things you enjoy doing.
Earn and learn in your 20’s
Burn and churn in your 30’s
You said that if you don’t know how to invest you are getting poorer and poorer. I don’t know anything about investing. Where can I go to learn or where can I get help online? I love your tweets…you got me hooked…very motivational.
Approved products section has a book for you to read.
So as many young professionals start on the street they start getting burnt out from the long hours and work. ? I’ve heard from people currently working on the street that approx. 90% of IB analysts turnover to PE, HF, Corporate finance/operational role, start up or completely unrelated to finance. With so many analysts turning over, what are your tips and advice to avoid burn out?
Reason I am asking is because I’m afraid that soon I will start getting burnt out from the hours and work and DO NOT want to be that guy.
To be honest the answer is politics.
I you have a great boss with great pull within the firm, people won’t bother you as much, you work a bit less and you get paid more.
Win, win, win.
On a side note you should also enjoy the piece of Wall Street you work within. Ie: if you like hedge funds stay there if you end up loving IBD go ahead and stay.
I am a second year student at Harvard Law. I want a banking internship this summer. I don’t think I’ll have access to the hbs recruiting channels, so what can I do to get interviews?
That is an incredibly tough jump to make from a “spin” perspective. Do you have the relevant finance classes/job experience?
Harvard is an incredible school making your switch easier but again the trick here is to find a way to get into the recruiting channels in some way shape or form. The way you can enter the network is by having finance classes/experience.
Simply put, if you wanted to do investment banking why did you go to law school? That’s going to be the initial reaction when your resume hits their inbox.
I have taken some finance and accounting courses at law school and in undergrad. I just need to brush up on my technical skills for interviews. I did some M&A at a law firm last summer, and I realized I would prefer to be on the business side. I think I have my story straight, but I don’t know how to get into the recruiting channels. I am contacting alumni who work in banking, but what else can I do?
A bit confusing because most summer internship interviews have already taken place (first rounds at least).
But if you are at a target school the most obvious choice is to attend the company specific recruiting events. If you can’t catch them at Harvard specifically (you should be able to when they are in town) you can also be aggressive by attending the same meeting at other colleges in Boston to show initiative.
Unfortunately hate to say it but you’ve moved a bit too late most recruiting is wrapping up/in full force already. If you take another law internship make it related to finance (M&A or securities law) then target investment banks aggressively in the fall.
Cold call, cold email every single bank in your area starting yesterday.
what typically happens to silver spoons who get into investment banking? do they survive because of their connections or is the industry so ruthless and unforgiving that they get weeded out as well when it comes to performance?
If you mean silver spoon as in “upper middle class coasted through school” they usually get burned out in 3 years and quit. Hence the 90% quit/leave ratio after about 5 years.
If you mean silver spoon as in “my dad is the CEO of Pepsi” well they get b-lined to the top and you can’t do much to compete because the dad likely drives a lot of business for them. Nothing you can do about it.
I got a full-time offer from an extremely small boutique bank in NYC. I’m excited to have landed something in IB, but I agree with you guys that your first job is one of those big turning points of your life, and I’m still a little wary about joining such a small firm. This Friday I am meeting the MDs to discuss base salary, bonus structure, and put everything in writing. I’m hopeful these guys will likely offer something like a $65K base plus bonus, but part of me is afraid they might try to low-ball me with a $40K base plus bonus, or something equally as bad. Also, is this the time for me to be negotiating for a better base or bonus structure? What do you guys think?
Two things.
1. What are your other options? If this is your best one you’re stuck regardless right?
2. You can’t worry about something that hasn’t happened yet
This is my only option in IB, yes. Though I have family connections that could hook me up with something in Corporate Finance, I’d rather work in IB.
You’re right I can’t worry about something that hasn’t happened yet. But do you think it’s a good idea to try to argue for better compensation regardless what happens?
No because if you are taking an investment banking analyst job for the money the chances you survive on Wall Street are next to zero.
We would guess your worst case is $50K+ bonus your $40K estimate would be incredibly low. But again you have no other IBD offers so you have no bargaining power.
“if you are taking an investment banking analyst job for the money the chances you survive on Wall Street are next to zero.”
Thanks, I needed to hear this. When I first read it I thought, “WTF, I thought the whole reason to go into IB was for the money” but I reread your advice and I see that’s not what you’re saying. I shouldn’t take the analyst job for the money, I should take the analyst job because it’s going to get me experience and help me get to where I want to go – namely, I larger firm with bigger deals and better compensation.
Yep. $100K as an analyst or $200K as an associate or … $500K as a Vice President. You can figure out where you begin to make real money on that analysis alone.
I asked earlier about why you and we do what we do.. and you said “Money” see above. Yet, you also say ” if you are taking an investment banking analyst job for the money the chances you survive on Wall Street are next to zero.” Can you explain the discrepancy here ?
Simple. Analysts make peanuts compared to a VP or a director. So if you’re going into the industry to try and “max out” your analyst bonus you lose sight of the real goal which is to get promoted as fast as possible.
What is more important an extra $10K on your analyst bonus or getting a Associate promote.
Example: you get kinda screwed on your 2nd year bonus and get $60K. Poor you. You then jump to a different firm to get that extra $10K at a larger bank and instead they were going to promote you to associate. You just ruined your career forever.
Simply put people who care about all in analyst compensation are usually the same ones to jump ship if they miss their bonus by a measly $10K. Costly mistake.
Ah I see what you’re saying now. Money and your future is the pursuit but not to screw up your future or career if its after just $10k extra like jumping ship to another investment bank. I remember when I was networking a VP at a well known PE funds told me that when people were getting screwed with bonuses (when he was an analyst at an investment bank) that 10k or 20k difference is so small compared to what you’ll be making when you’re in your 30s.
So the question to follow up with this: To me money has always been about freedom, to be able to wake up any morning and have the freedom to be the man you want to be. If it means you decide to quit your job when you have x amount of 0’s in the bank or if you want to go pursue other things money gives you that freedom.. to look yourself in the mirror everyday and answer only to yourself. Do you agree or what are your thoughts on money ?
Yep people who try to max out a few thousand dollars lose sight of the big picture. This is why we tweeted several times “would you rather be a Vice President at a middle market bank or an Associate at a Major bank” if you answer associate you’ve already lost.
Money buys freedom is our exact phrase (twitter handle). It can also save your life. Everyone who says money doesn’t matter is broke.
You tweeted assets>income. What are some great assets to invest in that bring in income or cashflow? Every book talks about buying assets and avoiding liabilities so what are some examples of assets?
stocks, bonds, real estate…. lots of options
Robert Kiyosaki from poor dad rich dad said that real estate are not assets they are liabilities. But besides stocks,bonds, real estate what are the other options for assets.
Stick with this. An asset is anything that is expected to appreciate in value over the long-term.
If you had 100,000 grand in savings, how can you make that money work for you so that it covers your living expenses and like that you can quit your job?
Unless your expenses are only a few hundred dollars a month not happening.
Rule of thumb is 4-5% of investments
You said that rich people don’t keep their money in a savings account and get poorer and poorer so where can you put your money to watch it grow yet keep it liquid for emergency purposes?
Already covered on our post on investing.
Emergency money is stuck in a savings account but the rest is invested.
Are certificate of deposits and bonds a good investment as far as making your money grow?
Today? No. CDs are not meant for growth they are meant for preservation.
CDs are only growing at 1-2% per year. Inflation is at 2-3% long-term.
Bonds = depends on the rate and risk. 2-3% on a bond = also not worth it.
So cds and bonds are out of the question. What are some other good choices then?
We already covered this and some bonds are okay. CDs are simply to preserve wealth.
How much difference in terms of pay and exit opps is there for equity research between BB, middle market, boutique? ER not IB to be specific.
ER is dependent on your analyst and his contacts. If you work for an analyst ranked in Institutional Investor versus one that does not there is a world of difference.
So the difference is quite large, $100K in pay difference. More dependent on analyst than bank though.
(Side note II ranked analysts are generally at bulge brackets)
Thanks a lot for the response, helps me set my target.
One more question I have is how does this compare to IB/AM in terms of how late you can break in from an operational position that you landed out of college think MO, post sales?
Not sure what you mean could you clarify?
Are you asking for an age range for an associate?
Sorry – yes say you broke into a bank but in an ops role right out of college around 22. What would the timeline look like if you wanted to get into ER without an MBA.
How would the work of an analyst differ in a debitor-focused restructuring group vs a creditor-focused restructuring group?
Can you provide links for the job descriptions, generally when you apply to IBD they simply distinguish as “Restructuring”
Why do most banks prefer to hire college seniors over individuals with industry/finance experience (e.g. a year or two at a less known PE/IB shop)?
Thats not true. If you have 1 year of experience at a smaller bank, many analysts do a “lateral” and jump banks. You can also jump up and jump down in terms of years.
Example 2nd year analyst at small bank, gets an offer to BB bank, usually this means he/she now starts at the BB bank as a second year analyst again (ie: lost 1 year)
The reason why banks recruit young top tier school people is because the hours are hard on your body and they don’t want to hire people who need hand holding all of the time. No way a 30 year old with no wall street experience is going to do an IBD analyst role compared to a 22 year old from Harvard.
What are your thoughts on transferring to Boston College or Fordham? BC seems to have a better program, but I would think exposure and networking would be superior at Fordham. Also, thoughts on U Chicago?
Another easy one. To choose you simply look up which college has more investment banks recruiting heavily at the school. To confirm the retention you then check on linked in to find as many finance hires as possible, all of this should be available at the career centers as well. Follow the numbers.
Target schools > non-target. Always.
If you were in an ops position for only half a year at a BB but had an offer for IB at a solid middle-market bank, how would you handle it? (Opportunity opened up, you used connections to get interview)
Not a dilemma, take the job and run. Congrats!
what do you think about investing with scott trade or etrade for a new investor?
Sure the lower the commission the better if you are simply dollar out averaging.
I just read your most recent article entitled, “How to Invest as a Bachelor,” and it was great, as always (I’m looking forward to this series). I have a quick question for you, though, along these same lines. I have a car payment each month that I’m sick of paying, totaling about $21,000. I have about $30,000 saved up at the moment. Would you advocate paying it off and having that asset to sell later? I want to make my money work for me, but I believe paying this off first would benefit me now. I’m an advocate of the minimalist lifestyle as well, as I save the majority of my income. I’m just not sure paying it off is wise or brilliant.
I would appreciate any insight. Thanks!
Sell it and buy a cheaper car. Debt payments on an asset that is declining in value is a terrible idea. Sell it ASAP. Basically add your interest rate to the deprecitation and you see the insanity quickly.
Cash only for cars.
Much appreciated, thank you for the quick feedback.
what kinda car do you have that you have to pay $21,000/month? or do you mean the remaining balance is $21,000?
Really enjoy the quality stuff you guys put out and I have a question regarding breaking into equity research. I networked my ass off and managed to get through to the recruiters directly responsible for hiring. Unfortunately the hiring managers they pass my resume onto aren’t MDs I made connections with so I’m not getting the interview. The main pushback I get is that I need more direct experience in the sector or equity research in general. This is for an associate level job and most of my experience is in fund of funds investing and hedge fund manager due diligence. I obviously practiced modeling and developed my writing skills for the job I want but how do I get the hiring manger to give me a chance?
I’m not accepting their defeat and will do what it takes to land a seat on a research desk. This was the same pushback from a bulge bracket on two occasions so far.
What is your spin to make up for the lack of niche knowledge? You should target a specific group, ie if you worked for a fund of funds their concern is your niche knowledge base.
Good point, my spin was that I spend a lot of time researching the underlying positions the funds we invest into take but that is too general now that I type it out here. Suggestions appreciated for better idea.
Since I’m looking to come in at the associate level, better to focus on sector and attempt to become an semi-expert in an area? I know not to pitch a senior analyst on a stock in the sector he covers.
I passed CFA L1 so at least have proved basic accounting knowledge but can only state I have solid modeling skills since I taught myself.
The #1 concern is sector knowledge then. You should certainly pick a stock within their coverage universe. Go on Bloomberg and find what stocks they rate as outperform and pick one of those.
Need to make sure the interviewer likes you, one good way is to “think alike”
Picking an outside sector shows you don’t care about the sector you’re interviewing for, that would actually be a ding.
Thanks I was told the opposite generally since they would know the stock clearly better than yourself.
Appreciate the advice, keep up the awesome work.
Read your post on navigating wall street. Fantastic post, but I was hoping you could clarify one thing. If my goal is to eventually to do M&A work for a BB, is it better to take the best M&A job you can get (even if it’s at a no-name boutique with less than ten people), over a Tier 3 offer from a BB (say, ER analyst at a BB)? Does Tier 2 always trump Tier 3?
There is clearly some wiggle room but yes in that case a smaller bank in M&A would be easier I hop to a larger group in M&A.
Why?
Well the skillset is the same. In ER at a BB you will do next to no M&A modeling, maybe a few quick and dirty ones for an acquisition that is announced.
Focus again on what your skillset is and less on how “prestigious” a job is.
Why would I hire you if you haven’t done the job before? I would rather hire someone who did the exact same thing at a smaller scale than a person who did not develop the skillsets for the job right?
Prestige is one of the biggest traps on the street if not navigated correctly.
On an off cycle hire (spot opened up, networked got an interview), how would you show that you can add value in an interview coming from a operational position.
This would be for IB, in a specific industry group.
Suggest you read the post on how to stand out as a non-target.
Once you have an interview it is about 1) the spin, 2) appearing low risk, 3) selling your teamwork skills.
Been with MO team for 2 years: I decided to stay with my group post graduation because it’s one of their better middle office groups with interesting projects. And honestly, I was ready for S&T interviews.
I find it difficult to really say out loud what I really want to do.
1) I like trading, because I want to be part of the business. It has soft sides of building relationships, and also enjoy the technical side of managing risk and using technology to automate processes, scripting.
2) I-Banking is interesting to me as I have been in corporate development internship and have experience what it is like to be on a M&A strategy team at a financial institution. But could not land interviews with Banks. I have very good powerpoint skills and actually like to put presentations together because I like to write with purpose and delivering message.
Do you have any advice on viable doors? I do not mind that I may be years away from a FO role.
That set up is not going to get you a front office job because if you tell an interviewer that they will immediately assume you don’t have a specific interest and they will also assume you’re not well informed on how the business works.
The best way to start is ask “do I like transactional work or market centric work” that is how you can then split the Street.
Would suggest you read our post titled “navigating Wall Street” to see the distinction, once you know what you want to do it becomes 1000000x easier to position yourself for a job in that field.
Hope that makes sense.
How do you ensure you get up on morning in time…after getting crushed for the last wee? What are some things you do/alarms you use?
1) Chug 30oz of water before bed
2) set two alarms far enough away where you must get up
3) stagger the alarm time by 5 minutes
Phone + standard clock is just fine
guys got any advice on dealing with failure/setbacks?
All failures are good they make you better.
Suggest the post on building “Unbreakable confidence”
You talk a lot about not giving advice out that is not based on experience. What if you hear good advice from someone who has the experience, and then you pass that information onto someone else, even if you haven’t got the first-hand experience yourself?
For example, you hear great advice from someone on how to make $1K fast. The guy has done it. Someone else comes along to you and says “how do I make $1K fast, any ideas?” Do you say “sorry, I’ve never made $1K fast so I can’t answer from experience” or do you explain “here’s what you can do…”
This is where you network. “I don’t know this answer well… but my good friend can help you, tell him I told you to reach out or you can meet us at x location at x time”
Always better to learn from the source.
thanks for answering previous questions. I had one final question on how do you guys let go of comparison to others? And deal with stupid emotions such as jealousy and envy? They fuck me up all the time.
On a side note just wanted to tell you guys that this blog has impacted my life in MULTIPLE positive ways already. Youre like the friends/mentors I never had. thanks for that!
You should always use comparisons however the comparison is only Self to Self.
Do not get into a battle of comparing you to someone else because there is always someon better than you at X. Someone always has more game better looks more money etc than you. This is a fact of life.
The way you get over this is by looking at yourself every year. Look at who you were last year. Who are you today? Did you grow? Yes or no. If you grew in 4 areas but not the fifth guess where you should start today?
Always always always compare yourself to who you were last year. You can’t control the lives of other people so why harbor useless feelings of jealousy. Never seen money made from spite and anger.
Comparison is good, but only against yourself. This is why the biggest critic in the room should always be yourself.
What do you find the most efficient way to prepare for a finance interview that is a serious mix of technical and fit questions. (Leaning more towards fit for this specific position)
Generally technical is you know it or you don’t so here is what you usually do.
1. Have the following answers down extremely well “why you” “why the firm” “why the position” “what can you add” and “what are your weaknesses”
2. If you have outstanding answers to those five then you can move onto technical and focus all of your time on that aspect.
Outstanding answers are rare, so they take at minimum a few hours to craft for each company and each specific group so unfortunately no there is no boiler plate, but each answer to those five should be so solid that it casts a cloud of positivity over your weaker points.
Then if you have amazing technical answers the job should pretty much be yours.
This is how you should prepare for every interview to be honest, regardless of mix. Since those 5 questions make or break you already then technical questions are all stored knowledge
Very quality answer and a very quick response as well.
Thank you for this and for every other post you’ve done on this site.
In addition to this – what would be your tactic of getting out of work to interview… sick day?
Usually people only have to leave for a few hours on Wall Street, so you have a dentist appointment then hop into a cab and go to your interview.
Also usually the set up is 1) phone interview, 2) 1 hour meet up (either late in a day or early morning) 3) another 2-3 hour meet up and yes or no decision.
No more super day craziness once you’re in the work force.
(Caveat being when you’re interviewing for a position that your current firm has a relationship with, then they don’t care at all and let you take the day to go and interview)
Thanks again – I guess the only issue would be if you’re in a business casual job and you wear a very crisp full suit to work, they’ll know what’s up.
Solution is the 3/4 length coat, when you remove the coat you also remove the jacket. Problem solved ; )
Just don’t forget the right slacks!
As a follow up to the above question someone asked. How do you stay calm going into an interview? I tend to psyche myself out before-hand and it definitely pours into my speech and energy in the interview.
Any tips/belief frames to go into an interview with to help with this?
Competence is confidence.
The best cure is to be prepared, the second best cure is to enjoy the challenge.
Being nervous means you don’t enjoy pressure, challenge yourself to enjoy the environment and thrive in it.
What is the difference between working for a MM PE or MF as an associate? Would the tasks be different? Secondly, how would future opportunities differ based on the two?
How does the training differ between going straight into PE out of undergrad(e.g. LGP, Silver lake, KKR) compared to starting out of banking imjtially ? Those PE analyst programs are more recent and unproven, but seem more useful for undergrads wanting to enter into the buy side.
Assume you mean middle market or “megafund” instead of “mutual fund”, with that in mind the tasks are essentially the same. This is similar to asking what is the difference between a mid market bank and a bulge bracket bank. The tasks are the same and the process is similar… but… as always when you move up the food chain the following changes:
At a megafund…
1) less acceptance of errors, 2) much higher intensity levels, 3) generally speaking much larger egos, 4) higher compensation and higher hours, 5) more opportunities
Opportunities are practically always better at the Megafund, but again similar to investment banking prestige can be a trap. Always choose the firm where you can obtain more responsibility because that is where the money is. If you join the PE firm and want to do PE for the rest of your life, however no one within that firm/group has ever stayed on past a few years… you may be better off going to a slightly less prestigious one that has retained associates and moved them to the VP level.
We have stated this numerous times on the blog and it is no different in PE. If you can make the jump your life will change forever.
Moving to your undergraduate question, the answer is it mixed, none of our writers have done it so we would suggest you contact someone who has. That said we do know of one person who went straight to PE as mentioned and it ended up being a great move since the small niche he joined was growing and they promoted him within. We’ll contact and see if he is willing to do a post.
The downside of going straight into the buyside is less structure. But again we’ll contact and see if a post is willing or not.
I know you have great examples for why you? why the firm? on your interview q&a…
Do you have any advice on the more general question, but very important, “Why Banking?”
Thanks in advance.
Sure easy one.
“I have always been interested in the financial markets because of my experience in XX, XX and XX. While I was drawn initially to the investing side of the market, i found myself digging deep into each company. After experience learning about companies such as XX and XX I realized I was interested in the transaction side of the business, valuing firms to be taken out or looking at strategic acquisitions.”
When they ask why banking, they are asking 1) do you know what the job is, 2) do you know how this is different from other wall street jobs and 3) how am i certain you are interested in transaction work (capital raising/M&A)
Hello sir.
I am need of some investment help. I am a young guy (21) and I have about 50K saved up (hard work and some crazy shit). The question is, how should I invest this money. I know it is not enough to invest in silent investors but I still want to maximize this large amount of money and set myself up for the future. I currently have 15K in mutual funds. About 50% bonds and 50% stocks. The other 35K has been sitting in a savings account (I KNOW!) for the last year and with inflation nearly at 3 percent; this is a problem as I am losing value. My emotional state is good when it comes to losses and I am looking to up my funds as I have seen dips close to $1000. I won’t be touching the money for another 4-5 years so I want to maximize earnings.
My main questions are: what is the best way to go about investing this money and 2) (more importantly) What do I need to learn about investing in order to really understand the markets (e.g. inflation, market values). I have some basics down, but a lot is lacking. Thanks
Read the intelligent investor from the approved products. The best way to learn is to read as much as possible.
How do I invest $1000? Or do I not invest it at all because it is basically nothing? I am a 22-year-old journalism student and I have about $1000 in a savings account. Should I keep it there?
Thank you. Your blog is great and, most importantly, has challenged me to think about and to truthfully rationalize what I believe life is about. I don’t subscribe to everything you guys say, and that’s not the point. You guys have deliberately cultivated an environment where anyone should question their beliefs. That is not just very hard to do, it is purely altruistic. Thank you.
With a G in your pocket you should kust keep it in a savings account because life events may come out of nowhere.
When you get to about $10K you start looking at investments because with $10K and unemployment benefits etc. you’ll last at least 6 months in a worst case scenario minimalist budget.
Everyone is different, but $1K is definitely not going to be enough if you have a real health accident or something similar. Money can save your life.
Glad you are enjoying the blog, slowly people are starting to get the message, keep improving Sam!
thanks guys!
As of right now I am attending a college to get an actuarial degree. I have a near full ride and will be exiting with college in 2 years with a net worth of hopefully $10 and no debt. Currently, I am planning on moving 2k into a high end investment management firm, who usually only take far wealthier clients but I had connections through my father.
1. I am planning on making a Roth IRA at the firm, and they will diversify it. Do you have any recommendations for how to proceed? (I plan on very long term investment for this, to be taken out in emergencies or at least in 20 years.)
2. Last I looked Actuaries are in high demand and rising, and I am making almost all As and a few Bs in the program. Do you have any suggestions for making the most of this career choice like internships?
1.In theory when you’re only in your 20’s you should be heavily in stocks, however the firm you invest through will likely give you a list of funds to choose from. Again we can’t tell you what to invest in (ie: we’re not going to look at the list and say “invest in X fund”) instead we suggest you choose a portfolio that is highly stock related (very minimal bond exposure) and make sure it has next to zero fees associated with it.
2. Actuaries are unrelated to Wall Street so we can’t provide any answers there. In your shoes it would be wise to search out an actuary specific website or contact alumni.
What were your fitness routines like as IBD analysts, and where did you find the time? Which lifts did you focus on, and how long were your typical sessions?
Likely to be explained in a post/product in the future.
Your schedule is hectic so you usually try to get the heavy work out of the way first (ie: legs), if you have no time you can do a quick workout with back and chest or shoulder then for the lighter days when you get out early you go to arms.
It actually gets harder to workout as you get older. You are constantly timing your gym schedule with travel schedule and working out in a hotel is tough if all you have is a few dumbbells and pull-up machines.
How much do interviewers care about how your suit fits if it fits a little loose because you lost weight – serious question.
Wall Street is full of terrible fitting suits and awful style. You will be perfectly fine.
That said don’t know why you wouldn’t spend $40 to have it tailored if you’re on a budget.
Hi there,
First of all you guys are doing a great job! I’ve learnt a lot here!
I have a question regarding my situation
I study a BS in Engineering and will take my exam in summer, also have applied to a master in management at one of the top universities. I’m looking for someway to do on my free time, and I’ve read a lot about investing and wall street but don’t know really what the best way is to get started. Can you help me out and maybe provide step-by-step with books/websites or anything that can help me get started with investing?
I have like 2K $ saved myself (I know its not much) and my parents have saved 50k $ on savings for me that I can use now If I want. What is the best way to get started for me?
(sorry for the bad english)
Side comment : The bachelor is in Software Engineering, and Im not really intrested in it anymore (you have to be really good at programming to get somewhere GOOD) , now these economic courses that are left, I have started to like them so much so wanna combine this somehow and learn more about financing and investing but dont really know where to begin..
Another side comment, sorry have so many questions:
If you suggest that I can do something else, I would be very thankful as well, since I don’t know if I’m heading the right path in my life
Will try to address all of this in bullets:
1. You should decide yourself on a career path you with to go for
2. Once you have decided you absolutely must obtain internships, internships within the field will always be better than a piece of paper from a university, you need both but graduating with no job experience can kill your career
3. Investing, please check the approved products for the intelligent investor
4. If your degree is in software engineering and you are at a strong University a good spin would be to work in technology investment banking, software equity research or a technology sales team. This ties to number one where you have to make a decision on where you wish to go
Good Luck!
Thanks for your good answer!
I just went and bought the book “The intelligent investor”, also I have worked as a Software developer for 5 months (aside from my studies) at Ericsson. Didn’t like it since it was only programming.
I’ll check out internships and those professions that you mentioned!
But your suggestion is to apply to those works after my education, then what? When I have the work just work and get a steady income every month? When should I start investing, because thats where the real money is, right?
May have missed the point eg. Jobs.
1. Once you decide what you want to do (decision needs to be made within a month or faster) then you…
2. Break into the industry with internships.
For an undergraduate you should have at least 3 internships in the field. (1 legitimate at minimum)
By the time someone is done with a masters this expectation would be in the 4-5 range. (1 or 2 legitimate ones)
Put the big blocks first, a high paying job. To get a high paying job you need to have strong work experience. To get experience you need to attend a good school.
We have a post explaining how to manage your life to make $100K+
Thank you, ok but after the $100K is it at that time I start investing? Will I know by time on what etc?
and does my work at Ericsson count as a internship?
Best regards
Yes you should invest when you’re making $100K already covered on the blog, begin dollar cost averaging.
On a glance the internship looks legitimate.
Lateral offer secured – know the concepts and technical stuff and what to expect. How do you best prepare yourself to get thrown into deal flow without formal training?
Semi Support Role -> iB
Same as always do perfect work then politically poisition yourself into the group with the best deal flow.
No other preparation needed if your excel and power point skills are perfect and you don’t make mistakes.
Office politics is the best post for you to read
When’s the best time to send a networking email to bankers?… is there differences for:
-Analyst
-Associate
-VP
-MD
-Partner (Boutique)
Covered in recruiting as a non-target, the best day is Friday afternoon for all levels because there is likely more downtime and people are in a better mood.
Monday is hands down the worst.
As a senior undergraduate that has an IBD offer in hand, what are some things I could do not to prepare for PE interviews in approximately a year’s time? How did some of the writers make the jump/what was their preparation like?
Your entrance into PE is going to be entirely based on your on the job performance and your deal experience ie: politics.
Basically, to have a good shot at a top PE shop you need to close or be on love M&A deals. If your entire résumé is simply spreading comps, pitchbooks and equity deals… You will have a very hard time getting a chance at PE.
The best way again is by using politics and correctly positioning yourself within the bank.
At this point there is limited preparation, as stated above you either know it or you don’t. Ie: you either got on deals and the firm liked you or you never got the right experience.
With that said congratulations on the job and your time should be 100% focused on doing great work for the bank. No one will care about your preparation if you haven’t proved you can do PE work. Long story short make friends with the right MDs (ones wih PE connections) and get on as many M&A deals as possible.
After 2-3 years in the business people ask you much less about technical questions etc. Instead you are forced to prove it through 1) deal experience 2) case study test and 3) live LBO model from scratch.
Part three should be a cake walk if you have the right experience so this is getting repetitive but it needs to be said, get that deal experience.
hey guys, got any tips to break out a cycle of negativity/downwards spiral and build positive momentum to move forward?
The best solution is always the same, remember a time where you overcame a similar obstacle and return to that mindset.
You will never get anywhere by being down on yourself. Complaining never earns money.
Background: Current senior student in university, will be in IBD upon graduation.
I remember reading your article on investing and generating 7% returns in the market. Now here’s my question:
I currently have a student loan with a fixed prime + 50 bps rate (approximately 3.5% in Canada right now). Would the difference in interest income/expense (7% – 3.5% in interest rate = 3.5%) justify having the debt outstanding, or should I attempt to pay off my student loans in full instead?
One strategy I was thinking of having was investing any extra income/bonus, and then matching the mandatory debt repayments with my income from investing.
You can try your strategy but overall most people find a large psychological boost from ridding themselves of all of the debt.
The latest post on investing priorities should answer your question in detail.
Basically, get the company match, get an emergency fund then pay it all off. If you are extremely disciplined and you can manage your emotions feel free to try your strategy but again, in general most people are better off getting rid of the debt due to the psychological advantages
For a recent college grad analyst – what are some ideas you’d recommend for things to do in extreme downtime at work (2-3 hours at a time)?
Broad topic for starters a good idea is to download books in PDF format and utilize alt tab and windows D so you can read during your free time. Do not spend your time reading sports updates and random news flow on yahoo.
In addition, you should carve out a niche in your group/sector so feel free to read about the companies you work closely with.
By the end of a couple of years you should have several business ideas.