Great Businesses: From Expensive to Cheap
When we think about “great businesses” everyone talks about Google, Amazon and Facebook. Not to mention the top tier brands like Nike, Apple and Coca-Cola. While these are all great businesses beyond a shadow of a doubt, the chances of creating these mega corporations is quite small. In fact, there are millions of other ideas that generate very high cash flow, revenue growth and stability that most people wouldn’t bother looking into because they are “boring” or “unsexy”. Instead of trying to become billionaires we focus on making a few million ($5-10M or so) and then calling it off (hitting cruise control to enjoy life versus playing the “who has the biggest wallet” game). Everyone has their own set of principles and ours are outlined in that sentence alone. No point in being rich if you’re busy working all the time (money is just a tool). So below, we’ll go through several good businesses.
Higher Cost Items
Financial Modeling Classes: We always laugh at the high price tags. People really do pay $3-5K or more for “financial modeling” classes before joining Investment Banking and other high finance sub-segments. This is highway robbery. Any major bank already has pre-made templates for every single type of transaction: Merger of Equals, Acquisitions (Cash vs. Stock), comparable company analysis, Leveraged Buyouts, Financing… So on and so forth. Learning how to use excel (something a macro can do by the way) is not going to set you apart. Now here is the fun part… Will anyone listen to this paragraph? Nope.
Why? Well the vast majority of high achievers will do practically anything to get an “edge”. Financial modeling courses target severe insecurity (failing at first position out of college). Now that you’ve seen the phrase “severe insecurity” you know what that means! Great business. Once you get them to learn something new they will think it was worth the money. Besides, spending $3,000+ on something that added no value would be something a “dumb” person would do and no one who is getting a high paying job is “dumb”… right? Now you see the entire full circle of the business model. They are not targeting dumb people. They are targeting the “need to succeed” and doing so in a way that requires very little operating expenses (only cost is a person and a room in a central location).
Motivation & Self Help: Another great business model. While we have a controversial view on “motivation” in general it does not mean the business is bad. In fact, it is a great business. If you can successfully get 100 people or so (rough math) hyped up about your ideas, then one of them will succeed (1% is reasonable and likely low de to large numbers). You then build off of this with success stories and how the presentation/seminar changed their lives! You can wash rinse and repeat this because it essentially “stacks”. If you get one devoted person, they will then likely get at least one more for you.
This is another one we would classify as “targeting insecurity”. You’re essentially telling people they can be “more than they are today”. In some form of rah rah scenario. Now it is true that taking a positive view on life and killing yourself (working extremely hard) will result in a lot of benefits… paying $3,000+ to hear this message is a bit of a stretch to say the least. No successful person needs to pay for these seminars, instead they work hard and improve constantly. The last item before signing off on this great business is you don’t even need to succeed. That is right. All you have to do is “inspire others” to succeed and you’ll succeed. By getting other to believe your message you’ll be successful by default “perception is reality” as they say.
High End Fashion: Brand names are the highest margin businesses on a “like for like basis”. If you have the exact same products, you can charge another 50% margin on top of the product (likely more) just because you slap on a name such as Gucci on top of it. This is 100x as true for jewelry and any item that essentially has fixed costs (no variable costs). We could list off a hundred brand names but jewelry and clothing are the two most obvious ones since they deal with particularly high volume.
The one downside of going down this path is your market size. Since your goal is to be exclusive you can’t do brand damage by suddenly allowing your products to show up at Nordstrom Rack for example. This would take the clientele down a notch since it would no longer be seen as a luxury item and more of a “upper tier” brand. Even though the product could be exactly the same quality wise, the brand damage would not be worth it for these high-end products.
Lower Cost Items
Dive Bars and Pizza: If you have a better idea of what the average person wants, focusing on these two low end businesses are profitable. Sure online sales is still 100% the best way to go if we’re asked. But. Both late night pizza shops and dive bars pull in large amounts of money. It’s interesting because the higher end clubs rely quite a bit on bottle service and heavy spenders (hence the big turnover) while the dive bar crowd has much lower costs and doesn’t have to pull in $10,000+ tables every weekend to make a living. A large number of people buying an $8 glass of wine that costs about $1 or less is going to create high cash flow assuming that the overhead cost is minimal (typically is since we’re talking about smaller venues).
The second item is what most people do after partying all night. They go to some nearby venue that serves pizza or another unhealthy basic food option. Sure it’s not a glamorous business… But the cash flow is very good yet again. Dominos Pizza can turn a profit off of their cheap $5-6 medium pizzas so those $3 slices of pizza sold at your standard shop are high margin. Think about how many slices of pizza would be required to generate a full medium sized pizza and you’ll get an idea for the math behind it. Naturally, most people won’t think about this since they spent the night partying and a few bucks is nothing. This is great for you if you’re interested in a basic brick and mortar.
Magic Pills: We’ve covered this many times in the past so we’ll keep it short. Anything that is supposed to help: 1) focus/intelligence, 2) weight loss or 3) magic skin care will be an amazing product. The testosterone replacement pills were a great idea but the market is just a drop in the bucket compared to the other three. Weight loss or skin care are billions of times larger than any of these other smaller secondary markets. If we fast forward to the year 2150, we have no doubt that the same markets will exist. People don’t want to work hard, they don’t want to think, they just want to wake up and suddenly have their problems solved. You can even put terrible stuff into the pill such as Guarana and it will be bought (diet in this example).
Scents: We’ll take a broad phrase here. Anything that has to do with improving the smell of an environment typically commands extremely high margins. Cologne, perfume, air fresheners etc. All of these items cost almost nothing to make. A bottle of good smelling liquid costs fractions of pennies more than pure water (except maybe Fiji water, they’ve successfully branded that thing to extreme prices!). These are high volume products but a popular scent can create large amounts of money. If you’re familiar with the brand “Axe” they did a phenomenal job targeting men who had trouble dating women. This was so successful you can even google the phenomenon. We suggest the following article: How Axe Built A Highly Scientific, Totally Irresistible Marketing Machine Built On Lust
“For here, at this very lab, the same scientists, with the same equipment, often with the same ingredients, are designing elegant $200 colognes and $3.99 bottles of Axe body spray”… We’re not exactly sure how the Company was able to do this. Yes we know that it was marketing, but the level of execution was incredible to watch.
Services
Blue Collar Work: Using this as a vague term to encapsulate plumbing to cleaning to landscaping (and many more). While this is unlikely a path for most of our readers it is by far the most lucrative path for someone who has a limited skill-set. Even if you’re not the best with numbers and you’re not going to be creating high quality internet ads/products, you can always work hard. Blue collar positions will still be around for the next several years. Sure automation will begin to replace pieces of it, but you’re going to have a client base that unlikely sees a big benefit from a few dollars saved. Besides… You can always buy the robots in the future to do the work (hedge yourself out). This line of business is a “must have” meaning that everyone will need someone to help fix up a house, fix a broken faucet or improve the landscaping of their backyard. In short, this is much more time consuming up front but has a clear path to winning (long hours and scale). After you can hire your own employees and build a rolodex of repeat clients its a solid business (just isn’t sexy to call yourself an electrician for example).
High End Services: The wives of rich men are not going to have their hair done and live without spa treatments are they? Of course not. The cost of massage oils and other items used at Spas is somewhere around a few pennies so the only real cost here is the therapists and a cool “atmosphere”. You’ll hear the word phrase “wanting to be pampered” frequently and this just means higher margins for you! If you can create a high quality “relaxation” spa, chiropractor or otherwise… You’re going to be swimming in money. These are great businesses because many people enjoy the experience which can result in a much higher premium on the cost. The small increase in physical well being is more than worth it for a wealthy person so the trade off ends up being a “win win”.
Terrible Businesses
With some of the best ideas out of the way we’ll go ahead and highlight “terrible businesses”. This does not mean you will fail at them. We are simply pointing out that there is high competition, slimmer margins and a lower chance of success.
Brick and Mortar in General: At the end of the day, having a business with a lease + monthly payments is going to make it a lot harder to succeed. People attempt to justify this cost by saying “built in customer base” but that is extremely weak. Online you can buy the customer base with a much lower cost and they can be located anywhere in the world (this is what we recommend for beginners). If we’ve learned anything from the latest Facebook privacy issue it is that these companies know exactly who to target with their ads. This is your benefit and at a much lower cost than a monthly lease payments.
Restaurants: Excluding the late night and dive bar examples we gave, the restaurant space is extremely competitive. Sure you can go down the higher margin path with drinks/frozen yogurt etc. But. The competition for restaurant money is quite high. They are all over the place and if you’re in a major city you’re likely competing with 5-10 other solid restaurants in the exact same niche.
Being a Private Driver: The math behind driving an Uber or Lyft is just not good. Unless you’re driving an extremely fuel efficient vehicle, it’s going to kill your margin line. When it comes to businesses we’d avoid trying to compete against these tech giants in general. You’re better off becoming a dog walker because at least you can have a 0% operating expense line and you can build a client base to then consistently walk 100s of dogs a week.
Low-end House Services: This is specifically the low-end. High-end moving/home services are quite good as you’re likely dealing with the aging population and you’re dealing with bigger changes. Low-end cleaning/services is tougher to scale because each employee is going to make a much lower wage relative to the higher-end. If you find a niche within the housing services space make sure you can take some sort of item and scale it up (carpet cleaning with a large piece of equipment that usually needs to be rented, the mentioned plumbing/electrical work etc.). Just don’t go out there trying to scale a business with a mop and some soap. Find heavier machinery that cuts on time and is too costly for your average person to purchase for their home.
would love to see more articles like this, this is gold (and I’m sure the comments will be too)
Also: Coffee shops, sandwich shops, rental business, vape shop, weed shop if you’re one of the lucky few to get the license, self automated car washes (no employees)
True coffee shops have high margin since a cup of coffee is a few pennies vs. $2.50
High-end coffee shops aren’t very profitable, as it takes much longer to make each cup and requires more specialist baristas. To make ends meet they often need to sell lots of other stuff on top (food, event space hire, a bar etc).
Yes we’re referring to low end.
$2 coffee from pre-brewed pre-made stuff.
What are some good online business ideas?
In book already…
I’ll pay you to delete zero value comments like these lol.
Great article, thanks for sharing guys!
In the blue collar service work, there is a HUGE spread of hourly rates from the local, random guy on Facebook to the Professionals. Part of it is equipment, but it’s really about branding and exceptional customer touch point emphasis.
I own a service business, as well as a Brick & Mortar Retail Store. High fixed costs SUCK, with the one good thing being that when you are well above them, each additional dollar of income goes straight to the bottom line.
That is true, if you’re above the line then it’s smooth sailing. Doesn’t feel good paying those monthly outflows though
Expanding on the whole idea for financial modeling – selling any sort of expertise course as well.
Online courses for internet portion of execution.
Consulting, and it’s board forms of execution (research providing etc.)
Neighborhood based IT support (young Jimmy whose good with Microsoft XP providing help to 72 y/o Bernard who doesn’t know what email is).
Any sort of simple coding agency, providing solutions to those folks who don’t want to put in the time for WordPress. Xavier isn’t very good with people, so basically just connecting Xavier with Suzy who wants to build a Beauty Blog.
Anything where people are too lazy and don’t want to put in the hours really.
I like the idea of productized services around emerging or growing markets.
Here’s how it works:
Step 1 – select a market
Step 2 – repackage / completely copy what’s working in similar markets
Step 3 – start selling (easy because market is well defined)
If I were doing this today, I’d go with CBD and offer to drive non-traditional traffic since you can’t advertise on google, fb, etc.
Get customers addicted to the traffic, which is a problem in the niche. Sell packages for other services like lead generation or conversion optimization.
Automate the sales / business operations.
Then expand to kratom.
Basically you want to lock customers down with a recurring offer, flip in a few months and use the cash for another business that’s a lot less work.
how do you drive non traditional traffic?
And, can you please hold my hand the entire process?
What about a fast food franchise in a small town with virtually no competition? As a small town guy myself I think it could work.
Franchises are hit and miss, lot a of demographic research needed. Haven’t dabbled, let us know how it goes!
Good article.
Important to remember online is not the only place to make money.
I would add sports gambling so called experts who sell their picks for $$$. Sports gambling is huge all over the world and is maybe close to being legalized all over America. Being positioned as and expert and having inside info and being able to pick winners on a consistent basis while having an webiste that sales pitch that makes you look good can make you alot of $$$$
check out steve stevens, the man is the greatest salesman ever; convinces people to bet their money and give him half if the win, take the full loss if they lose
he’s not a bookie, he’s the bookie killer lol
I think this opportunity is fading. Most people now know that they’re frauds and the 16 year old who bets $10/game can’t afford the handicappers “expertise”
That being said there is ZERO overhead so if you want to throw a few $s at advertising and try to pick up clients it is very low risk.
Cool article gents.
Just a few ideas that came to mind in addition to yours:
– small legal marijuana growing operation
– Cryptocurrency mining operation
– High traffic website
Crypto mining is not a terrible idea but for 90% of people just buying and holding non garbage coins is the best bet. Mining should be done only with those who want to have a deeper knowledge of crypto. Troubleshooting a mining rig can be tedious and time consuming.
if you’re a skilled music producer music licensing is the way to go. Not very fancy and it isn’t very popular, but you can clear in mid 6 figs *a year* if you know what you’re doing (great quality music in a niche + VOLUME of quality + decent at sales)
How so? You’ll need to build up a team of reliable producers, engineers and singers/rappers (this is the hardest part). You co-write EVERY song and get ~50% from each song while the other person(s) get the other 50% (If you’re skilled you won’t take much time to do your part, thats where the magic of delegation happens)
Really put in time in searching for talent, specially if they could do use of a few grands per month (most musicians will say yes and become your semi-slaves, lol)
You sell all rights to music libraries when starting up to get cash flow and street cred to get better people to work with you. Then you can go the publishing route where most $ is long-term (1 album you do today can net you thousands or more each year, for a LIFETIME, or at least for decades – The reusability of your albums is something to plan carefully, like what will you invest on and HODL long term – also remind you that you can sell your album-rights anytime) –
Back to Publishing. It demands plenty more work (sales/pitching/networking) so better have your delegation-chain “On-Lock” (like The Peoples Champ says)
You can also have a real deal publisher to do the work for you in a distribution deal but they’ll take home 50%. Depends on your priorities (like being an artist). But have in mind that the relationships you develop in publishing will be very valuable for your biz long term.
Be aware that you MUST research well what specific types of music you’ll be doing. Focus on your strengths though. Being creative is necessary but this is not art it’s a commodity, focus more on what would work in an advertisement/movie scene VS a creative cool song (the latter is good but NOT the priority)
If you can scale this to a decent sized team and bang out quality tracks 24/7 you’ll be swiming in $ compared to going artist-route without many skills or $ (the artist route is great but you need a more developed skillset when starting, and when you start you’ll need serious funding for it). Also if you’re a real G in licensing you can have some significant Pro-Bono publicity for your music as an artist in ads/media (plenty of bands get big this way, e.g. X Ambassadors with Jeep, Skrillex with Adidas, etc) so it’s a win win starting off this way.
Learn basic copyright too.
Hope you stack the cash fellow Music-G, this biz urgently needs a soy-Purge.
The MBG
AKA GFK III
How many tracks do you need to start pulling in that kind of money? Like how much would one placed track bring in on average?
And what about straight up songwriting/producing?
Before I answer that question, need to remark that this biz needs a decent amount of workforce and that isn’t WSP approved when you directly manage all of the them.
So if you can hire a reliable, skilled manager when you’re scaling that’d give you a big time stress & time relief by removing plenty of minutia. That way you focus more on the most important aspects (establishing + scaling a solid base of recurring licensees and providing the music with the longest-term ROI in your niche)
Now to answer your Q, the amount of tracks you need done per week depends a lot on your niche, quality and how many licenses you usually pull for each of your tracks. There’s also the P.R.O. royalties that pay big time when stacked, but those royalties take time to get to your bank + it’s directly correlated with the amount of licenses you pull.
Regardless, you should aim for pulling each year at least 600-900 tracks to start seeing a legit 6-fig net income. Remember that this will stack like crazy because of the PRO royalties long-term, that’s why you should make music in your niche that will be in demand thru the years. Research the possible angles and test your products, like the WSPs outline in efficiency.
If you want to scale to a 7-figs *income* a year you’ll need to scale the team more (Or a reduced but full-time, higher quality team), expand a bit the music demands/sales angles you fill (which are 10x as carefully selected/researched), and have your sales skills in god-mode (or hire someone who does).
You’ll be competing against the major publishers, popular songs from medium to big tier artists and *their existing relationships with the major licensees* (TV networks, netflix, film studios, big youtubers). This is where signing and/or designing/launching your own artists will be of use to land bigger and bigger licensees for your publishing biz, while you also get that Tour $$ coming from your artists.
If you’re a GREAT producer/musician already you may go into songwriting/producing for a big indie or a major publisher but that’s like getting into the Wall Street of the music biz (A career where you depend highly on other people). Although it’ll be useful since you’ll learn there a lot of how they do everything and also develop useful biz-relationships you may use.
So a law firm would be a terrible business?
Great article !!
Only top dogs in law make a lot. It’s a classic 5% takes the majority market.
An average or median lawyer = debt and no upside.
Debt, little upside, long hours of soul-destroying work
Yep. There’s a reason lawyers have high suicide, depression and substance abuse rates.
I own a restaurant and it is terrible to run, it’s so true. Lazy employees, competitors left and right, long hours, etc.
That being said, the one great thing is that terrible businesses force you to improve or fail. This means that if all you do is keep on improving to survive, you’ll realize that:
1) you’re actually doing well
2) you’ve learned so much
3) you’ve got a bunch of transferable skills for your next business
And no, I am not planning to stay in the restaurant business much longer.
But…
If my younger self had to choose again, I’d still go with the restaurant because without the hardship I wouldn’t have pushed myself so relentlessly. Of course it is better to learn from success but I think I’m personally a knucklehead so I learn much more from failures.
With the hardship comes a skillset, work ethics plus a decent capital to start a new business. At the end of the day, that’s all I can ask for.
Brother Jimmy’s must crush it
Interested in learning more about the motivational / self help area. Have you seen the typical start in this area is public speaking and seminars or online webinars (starting free) and then sold for high tickets?
To add to bad business idea
Freelancing is a horrible business model…
1) you have to invest unpaid hours finding clients
2) you then have to do the project (hourly or lump price)
3) you then have to spend another week back and forth with client perfecting every detail.
Carries false illusion of freedom and with zero leverage and you gradually lose social skills
Well put, freelancing is essentially a job in many cases.
My favorite market will always be insecure rich people. I’m a personal trainer, and holy damn can I get away with a crazy rate for basic 12 week programs. Barely any overheard, too! Online software does all the work for me. I can’t imagine “working in a gym to get clients”. Fantastic article as always, gentlemen!
Are you training in person or just providing “custom” online programs?
We work in the same industry and niche. Very true re insecure wealthy people. I see mine face to face 1:1.
I’m actually nearing a brick and mortar high end PT studio, which I intend to change to group training, then focus on online.
How did you find the transition to online programs?
Premium priced services for customers with urgent needs…
e.g. one hour response time locksmith/plumber/doctor.
You’d have to respond within the same hour, which – while bringin in margin – severely limits your free time.
Then again, if you can hire your name out to trustworthy folks..
Tutoring for specific tests like the SAT/ACT or MCAT targets the same insecurity as the modeling courses you mentioned. Some different ways you could go with this one, a bit harder to scale by yourself obviously. If you live near a college or decent high school, you could build out a team of tutors/teachers from those schools. Main issues would be quality control and competing with the big players like Kaplan.
Insecurity/fear is the #1 fear in Ca$hvertising, and it is definitely one of the best converting!
Other ideas are dating niche info-products (currently working on a webinar funnel for this since the market isn’t going anywhere by 2050), recurring revenue bluetooth tracking devices (tons of angles to be taken), and recurring revenue niche treatment products – once clicked on an ad for canker sore prevention paste that had some killer testemonials, marketing, etc. almost converted on a $29.99 monthly product haha!
Also, you guys will be shocked by this new Bloomberg article that just came out. It popped up on STM and it ties in some of the current events revolving around facebook to completely rip on the affiliate/eCommerce/online sales industry. Check it out here (only takes 8 mins to read):
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-03-27/ad-scammers-need-suckers-and-facebook-helps-find-them
Cheers,
$Train
This is journalist clearly interviewed a squid Affiliate.
Voluum is not built to deceive Facebook and there are plenty of clean affiliates that use Voluum and that use Facebook.
Not to mention the real FB “scammers” pull $100k+ profit days and wouldn’t say a word to Bloomberg.
Finally the article implies that affiliates have it easy now on FB and otherwise. Man, when AdWords and FB first allowed advertising the algo May have not been high tech yet but affiliates were running whatever the hell they wanted! Lol!
Totally agree with you man. Though I’m new to the industry I know things were A LOT more profitable a few years back.
This blog post reads more as a PR play towards affiliates and employees. For a broader audience, focus on calling out Bloomberg’s hidden agenda in clickbaiting this situation, and how Voluum is thrown under the bus as a scapegoat / distraction in what is really a politically-heated bigger picture.
This article is SPOT on. I know most the people referenced and attended those conferences myself. I’d say 5-10% of the folks attending the affiliate conferences are running clean, white hat, rest is what they refer to as scammers.
Great post!
As a loyal reader and owner of a food business(Not a restaurant but analogous to pizza) it feels good to get a nod from WSP.
Food and bar businesses have a lot of moving parts. This is why even a place like McDonald’s, who have it down to a science, don’t own their locations. The franchise model puts someone in each store with some skin in the game.
Food may be risky but the sale prices reflect that. Generally 1-3x “cash flow”.
Outside financing is usually somewhere between difficult and impossible because the sale price is mostly good will.
It’s common for a seller to hold 20% of the paper. Sometimes more. Assumption of debt is also possible.
There is a threshold for buying a business vs buying a job. Don’t think you can buy something on the low end and throw a manager in there. It will never work.
I don’t see the sense in starting something from scratch. Best to buy from someone retiring.
A few businesses I would be interested in hearing about:
– Beer distributor. I heard there is money in owning the license for deposit returns.
– Home healthcare services
Manufacturing is now a great business provided you have a “moat”. My moat is superior technology, avoiding markets with significant competition (and TAM in any given market is still quite large), and excellent customer service. One of my rules is that I will *NEVER* have a robotic phone answering system. A human being (currently a very, very nice middle aged lady with a sweet voice who rescues dogs and donates blood in her spare time) will always answer the phone.
If you have a “moat” in manufacturing then net margins of 15-30% are attainable. Your technology base allows you to laterally expand into related product lines quite easily. The difficulty of manufacturing means new competitors don’t suddenly emerge.
I am currently at around 20% net margins and growing revenue at 25% per year.
Manufacturing was a rough space to be in for two generations or so, but now all the surprises are over. One caveat–top tier companies like Boeing, Intel, GE, etc. who think they won’t face competition from China ever are dead wrong.
But beneath that rung China is a known quantity and no longer a problem.
Magic pills are the best market by far imo.
Can’t help but laugh my ass off when I see people from high school opening a guitar shop in a town of 4,000.
Great high value post, i’d like to learn more about real business from this blog instead of “happiness posts” / investing / what to do AFTER you’ve become a millionaire etc.
And then a quick question.
Don’t you think that e-commerce / online sales as you recommend are getting too saturated in near future? Amazon FBA (which obviously gets you the best traffic) is definitely getting more saturated every day as it is really easy for anyone with few extra K’s in wallet to just buy bulk in china and private label it and ship it to Amazon FBA warehouse. I couldn’t really find any real statistics on this so i might be wrong too but i would like to hear your opinion about this aspect of online sales.
What careers would you recommend to help catapult a person with a criminal record into entrepreneurship
I guess you guys don’t care at crypto now that the price has tanked?
Still care about it same level of interest no change at all. Most people who bought at $10K+ = lol though.
This Article is gold man. Also, I have thought about a comment you made before where you mentioned that “If you could save a billionaire an hour of their time, then you could make a lot of money.” somewhere in one of your articles, I have been thinking about that last night, of some kind of online services or software that I can create to solve their problems. Funny thing is that I typed in ‘how can i help a billionaire?’ in the google search and all the result that came back were like “how can I get a billionaire to help me” lol
Ha that’s pretty funny, always have people looking for hand outs
“Financial Modelling Classes” I guess this is one-time sales (high priced ticket item) in your classification like the moelis example. I can see how online sales work with diet pills, skincare, teddy bears etc at $10-25 price range but when someone has to fork out $4k+ on a website (without any phone / face-to-face interaction before the sale) they seem to be more skeptical.
How do you get around that *before* you have a brand name?
Go on it’s a specific question and obviously a key point
Funny about the blue collar work. My father-in-law owns his own electrical contracting company and is a millionaire. Exact same process you describe, put in a lot of work up front, but brought in tons of cash flow after 10 years.