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The CFA and the MBA

Getting straight to the point, a savvy finance employee can skip both the CFA and the MBA.  This is not the norm but if you can skip both you save yourself 3+ years of studying and ~$10,000 for the CFA or 2 years and an opportunity cost of around $300-500K (2 years at $60,000 a year, post tax money which would be closer to $90,000 in terms of salary, and the foregone annual salary of ~$125,000 a year). Unlike your undergraduate degree in college, both of these items are not necessary to break into the business for the long-term. With this said there are certainly benefits to both an MBA and the CFA which differ depending on your background.

The CFA: There are two solid reasons to take the CFA approach 1) you have industry background or are from a non-target and need to get in, 2) your bank essentially requires it to move up the ladder.

  • Industry/Non-Target (Younger Candidates): There are three concerns when interviewing this candidate, can they handle the hours, do they understand financial statements and do they possess social skills. Generally speaking, the CFA level 1 exam answers one of these questions for the interviewer which dramatically increases your chances of getting an interview. The catch, if you take all three levels with zero finance experience you are sending red flags that say I cannot network over the course of 3 years, this makes your resume much more suspect and the behavioral portion far more important. Overall, if you simply get through level 1 more interviews will come your way and you’ve improved your chances
  • Moving Up: This is self explanatory, many banks have Analysts that require their Associates to get CFA’s to move up to the Vice President level and beyond. Fortunately, most banks don’t require this and I would actually recommend this route but not all banks are created equal. If you want to give the head research analyst confidence that you’re committed to finance with the CFA designation, you’ll likely reap the rewards over time or get fired because your designation doesn’t mean anything if you’re not generating profits for the firm. If I were choosing a new bank I would look into the biographies of the Analysts, if many don’t have the CFA try to get into the firm to save time and focus on learning the sector

The MBA: From a pure cost perspective, the CFA is far and away the correct choice but as previously mentioned, it’s only if you’re younger or already have a job that requires the designation to be promoted. The plus side is that the MBA can erase multiple questions, save you time from studying all day and on weekends and will benefit the vast majority of candidates, hence the higher cost. Candidates in the following buckets can benefit from an MBA:

  • Mid-youngish Candidates: If you’re around 25 years old and have no finance experience, throw away the CFA and go to business school fast. It will help you land your job quicker and you won’t be so old when you exit that banks will shy away from you. The unfortunate truth however, is that there are many qualified candidates with finance experience already getting the same MBA as you. Simply put? Work experience trumps everything so get a job on the Street fast, even if its for a small chop shop firm. Experience trumps “prestige” 1000x over today
  • Industry: Very similar, but if you’re in your mid twenties and have no interest in studying for the CFA, jump to school and your new pitch in interviews is that you would like to do finance and wanted a career change. Similar to the above bullet, experience trumps all, so if you’re going to eat the cost the smartest pitch is to work in the exact same sector as your industry experience, don’t be trying to get into Consumer banking if you were an ex-industry medical device specialist
  • Multiple Layoffs: Assuming you’ve been in finance for about 3-4 years it is very likely that you have been laid off at least once. If that is the case and you were unable to secure a job again on the Street I would advise that you go get an MBA in a new location. While this may sound a bit extreme, if you’ve really burned bridges its much better to start in a different hub (London instead of NYC, California instead of Texas etc.). As soon as you come out, your new pitch is that you believe you needed to develop a better network to succeed, you can also lie if you have no morals and say you needed to change locations for “XYZ” personal reason
  • Burn Out: You’ve been in the industry for a few years and you know its going to take a whole lot of effort to move up to the next level and you know you just can’t handle the hours anymore. In this case it is much better to get the MBA instead of loading up even more working 60+ hours a week and studying another 20+ on top of that. Set up a positive leaving environment by talking to your supervisor and getting positive references and get into that MBA program.  To be honest though, if you “burn out” in today’s environment, you’re effectively cooking your future earnings for a long time unless you have a long track record of success.

The CFA and MBA: Some people may ask “Should I get both?” the answer is simply no. Life is much too short to spend your time getting both when you only need one to move up the ladder without questions asked anymore. If for some reason you absolutely love studying finance then by all means get the CFA, but in that case I am guessing you may want to be a finance professor. Normally I would have at least a single reason to get both such as a laid off CFA employee, but if we do the math he likely has 3+ years experience and already passes the general interview screen.

Conclusion: While noting is ever perfectly set in stone, the above should serve as a great guideline to how you should operate your Wall Street career. Try to avoid both. The simple answer to avoiding both is to work for a reputable firm under a high ranking employee and have him/her do your cheerleading for you. You’ll thank me when you see all the MBA resumes coming in and you’re the one throwing them in or out of the interview pile.

26 COMMENTS

  1. Good article, however you are missing the best part about getting an MBA: Its a two year vacation where you party your ass off and chase undergrad tail. Most of the classes are joke, (especially if you were an engineering or other hard science major as an undergrad) and you usually have at least one week day without classes.

    If you go to a school like UCLA or Texas the undergrad talent level is off the charts, and they are still considered a top 20 program. Although to be honest someplaces, like U of Chicago, will definitely suck on a social level and aren’t worth it. Even Harvard isn’t bad as you are in Boston and get to tell all the ladies you go to Harvard.

    If you have busted your ass the last five years in banking taking two years off to party and bang hotties is pretty compelling…

    1. AIC,

      Well Said. Ditto. MBA is over rated and is more of a fad… world over. It is all about partying and screwing around and throwing your weight. As an MBA you simply skim through the concepts, learn to throw the jargons that the corporate world so adore and there you are.

      I am an MBA and am a CFA (Level III) candidate and speaking honestly and MBA knowledge wise would not even land in the first 1000 miles no matter what your pedigree be

  2. I would play Devil’s advocate, with the $120K+ of cost of an MBA… Lord knows the kind of damage you can do abroad.

    If it is paid for? Go; if not just get moved up.

    Money over bitches everyday of the week.

  3. I have an MBA from a big name school. $88K. Waste of time. Waste of money.

    Al C is right; the classes are a joke.

  4. There are a few PHD’s in the business in the role you’re describing.

    We may draw up a post in the future for your specific situation.

    Effectively, a PHD kicks you out of investment banking but would open the door for a Sell-side analyst gig or even a hedge fund gig. You’d carve out a niche in companies you must know inside and out and make some strong and convincing stock calls.

    Your biggest weakness is going to be salesman-ship in both cases. Even if you’re 100% right about the medical call, it does not matter if your idea fall on deaf ears. If however, you’re good at this you can break into the street.

  5. I’m a Industrial (Systems) Engineering student about to finish school at a top school in Canada. I have no finance experience or knowledge apart from extracurricular activities in a student investment fund and a minor in Business. My marks are above average, but could be considered low for finance students (think 3.0 – 3.3).

    My question is: should I do the CFA Level 1 to help me get my foot in the door or is simple networking a better option? Note that I do believe the CFA will enhance my knowledge of finance a good deal.

    1. For you pass level one extremely fast. By December. Also take 2-4 community college classes to boost your gpa just above the 3.5 water mark. Begin networking in about 4 months because you likely do not understand the space at this point.

      This website will also be a good resource in understanding the differences in pieces of wall st.

      A decent angle would be to work in an industrials group (assuming this is what you mean with the degree). Add CFA level 1 fast and you have a good shot at breaking in.

  6. LOL.

    Some of the crap spouted on here times is ludicrous.

    Listen, I have a good family friend until this year the only employer he ever had was Goldman Sachs. The lad got to VP in six years post-graduating. He was a trader, completed all three years of the CFA and is on scholarship to a top european business school.

    He is probably the smartest, most confident and astute person I know who did things the traditional way i.e top uni, top bank etc. I am 100% confident he’ll end up with a director level position in two years and be running serious risk in sterling terms in whatever asset class he chooses to end up in.

    Don’t be stupid and discourage people to not do both. If you are smart and savvy enough to handle both. Do both. There is no harm in this if you pull it off.

    1. So you ignore the entire point of the article which is that neither are needed to get promoted? Then your example is in London? On top of that it is not even you?

      Maybe the MBA and CFA have more value in London but in the states it is not *necessary*.

      No where in here is it “useless” the CFA is better served for asset management, long only and research while the MBA is more banking driven.

      Obscurely obtaining both in the states is not needed. For example if you want to be a banker for life you have zero need for a CFA. MBA maybe (again not necessary) CFA is of no use.

      1. V true.

        France/Germany/Italy/ (not so much UK) have a big obsession with numbers of degrees.

        Go to any bank in France. People have sometimes have 3 degrees on average. And generally people go into the work force at an older age.

  7. I am a 42 yr old woman who was a stay at home mom. I will be graduating w a BS in finance and already starting my mba in finance from a smaller school in Chicago land area. I do not have any work experience in the field. High GPA. I am so panicked re my age in securing a “first year” position. Does anyone have any suggestions as to any steps that could improve my chances of even getting my resume noticed? Or a field that would be more receptive? I am able to put in the hours, my kids are older now. FYI I had a very ill child for years that prevented me from pursuing this career path earlier. I am an aggressive self starter. Excellent people skills, worked extensively as an advocate for special needs kids. I had to communicate effectively w every level of professional involved attorneys, school superintendents, direct service personnel, physicians. CFA?? I read the article but at my age I’m not sure if the same rules apply to my particular situation. Thanks peeps!

    1. You need to stop everything you are doing and go find a finance internship today. This is going to be the main hurdle in obtaining a job. If you do not have any experience in the field it will be incredibly difficult to land a position in the field.

      We do not know what area you wish to work in, but we suggest taking a look at the Wall Street Map we have provided and going for the closest rung to what you wish to do.

      In today’s climate, work experience is essentially a pre-requisite.

  8. I am 28 yo Engineer, have been doing business myself in trading real commodities. I wish to start an investment firm in the long run. I am looking at these three important points:

    1. Opportunity cost

    2. Learn to be fit for a good financial investor, adviser

    3. Earn trust from investors, so that I can get clients to invest in my investing firm (very important)

    Which course would you suggest?

    1. Assuming you have enough cash to start an investment firm, then the clear choice would be a CFA. Since this would save you a lot of money.

      Negatively, neither the CFA or MBA is going to give you a B-line access to cash. Your goals are ambitious and again your #1 course of action is simply raising funds. Once you can obtain a few million dollars, then your track record will do both for you 1) establish trust and 2) increase confidence in your financial advisory abilities.

      Again this is all a bit vague since we do not know what type of fund you want to make, working as an advisor or working as a portfolio manager.

      Best of luck!

      1. Thanks for the quick reply. Since my background is engineering, I have no formal background in finance or economics.

        But I have been learning a lot about finance and economics from open platforms like coursera and books. I have a very good track record in stock market investment through value investment. In fact this track record suggests me to start an investment firm which could guide others for a better investment through my firm.

        But to get investors, simply saying that ‘I know’ finance would seldom work. So I was thinking of CFA or an MBA.

        The opportunity cost for MBA is heavy. But if I could get in a top school, the investment would be around $150000-$200,000 plus the earning I could earn during that time. But the expected salary is about $100,000. So the ROI will be around 50%/year, that is I can make up that money in 2-3 years.

        CFA on other hand will let me earn more during the two year MBA period. But I am not sure if I can crack CFA with my engineering background.

        Secondly, the community around me is not related to finance. It would be great if I could work somewhere in an investment firm, so that I can get in touch with the kind of people I want. But again to get a job in an investment firm might need an MBA.

  9. You are a big joker. Finance is a knowledge based industry which is prestige driven. If you have Bachelors in Finance from a Top Business School and a job at a top firm than yes you donot need anything. It’s like saying if you are Steve Jobs and Bill Gates than you donot need and undergrad degree. For the large majority of the world who doesnot start from Goldman Sachs, CFA or MBA or both can prove to be quite beneficial.

  10. If I’m from a 3rd world country (Accountancy Grad) – work in Equity Research at a pretty decent I-Bank….looking to make it big in Wall street/Footsie…. spending $ 50 K (have the cash.. may get scholarship)… for a decent Top 20 MBA make sense? Or work my way up in my country and try to make a move Onsite? CFA out of question don’t want to study accounts again.

    1. You have not stated what industry you want to work in.

      In equity research a CFA would generally be better than an MBA if you are politically alligned at your form.

      If you want to switch to investment banking for example then yes an MBA would help you switch careers.

      If you’re going to get promoted and you don’t need either, you’re a fool to leave. You should know within a year or two if the firm is going to promote you.

  11. Wall Street Payboy,

    Do not corrupt people’s thinking. MBA is a joke.. no matter wherever you do from… It is a big fad. Don’t compare it with a holy thing like CFA…

    The world is at least a decade behind in exploiting any worth of the CFA or FRM…. Don’t spread half baked knowledge you are not helping the cause.

    1. The CFA suff has been formally in existence since the early 1960s… if its “worth” hasn’t been exploited for 50 years then whats the point?

  12. What is the best way to get to the Sales director position of the multinational tech company? I did my engineering grad and have 2 years of work experience in engg firm. Thinking of doing an MBA in sales and marketing? Would it be the correct path?

  13. I have a MBA and passed the Level 3 CFA exam this year. I have been looking for several months mostly online while teaching. I am of course willing to relocate. Having spent way too long looking for work, I don’t think I should have ever left IT, and now I’m learning Python.