Over on the Ask Us Anything section we’re starting to see the same questions come up. This post is going to address why the advice won’t change and how we can save time together.
1) How Do I improve my Diet? We have covered diet advice in a post. If you haven’t taken a look then go ahead and read the post. If you’re slogging 80 hours a week you need to be efficient and as we stated before, if you don’t want to read the post, here’s the basic outline:
Breakfast: Fruit + Protein. Worst case a protein shake in the AM and a banana/fruit bowl on your way to work
Lunch: If you have a high paying job, lunch is used to improve your political positioning so you always eat with people so suck up the $10-12 meals
Dinner: You can get $25+ from your company, do not waste it on unhealthy food. Most people will eat terribly which starts the downward spiral. There are hundreds of options online using seamless. If you don’t have to work late… then make your meal at home after your day is done.
By doing this you guarantee 2/3 of your main meals are healthy. Lunch may be hit or miss, but if you’re smart all 3 will be perfectly fine and you won’t break the bank.
2) What Bank do I Join? Again this question misses the point by a country mile. The question is, which bank will allow me to get promoted the fastest. If you have no idea which bank then go by the rule of thumb
Elite Boutique (Moelis, Qatalyst, Centerview, Evercore, Lazard, etc.)
Bulge Bracket (Goldman, Morgan Stanley, Citi, etc.)
Middle Market (Jefferies, Piper Jaffray, etc.)
No-Name Banks (simply make sure it is the same job function)
No, we will not get into a back and forth about “what exactly is E-Boutique versus not” it is up to you to make that decision but if you’ve done your due diligence the answer will be extremely obvious. If they pay above top bonuses at a bulge bracket… it’s an E-boutique. If it pays the same as a BB… it’s probably smarter to choose the BB.
After your very first job none of this matters at all anymore. From that point forward you choose the firm that is going to promote you the fastest. Think smart. It is about responsibility not prestige.
“F*** prestige get money”
Put that quote on your cubicle. People who obsess over prestige have never had a long career on Wall Street. Maximum of maybe 5 years. To put the nail in the coffin check out one of two blogs we recommend (we only recommend Danger and Play and Financial Samurai). Click on FS’s blog… notice something? He started at a top shop but his real money came in after getting promoted and generating a ton of revenue. **hint hint**
3) When Should I Work Out? Well do you even work out? If you’re under 30 years old and you don’t work out 6 days a week you’ve already lost in the first place. If you have been working out 6 days a week, you probably already have a healthy routine! See how that works? So the question is not when you should work out it is if you even work out in the first place. We got this question many times and the answer when pushed is exactly the same.
If you work on the East Coast you go to the gym first thing in the morning. If you work on the West Coast you go to the gym after work.
You can feel free to change this if you’re a morning person or a night owl but it really misses the point. The point is this:
“There is no science, there is simply consistency.”
Consistency is how you keep yourself honest. If you can make it to the gym every single day and lift correctly, you’re going to see gains.
4) What Do You Think About the Stock Market Levels? Always the same answer, do not care at all. You should not care if the S&P is at 1,700 or 2,000… simply dollar cost average into cheap ETFs such as VOO, SPY etc.
If you’re trying to beat the stock market and you only have a half million dollars or so in the bank, you’re wasting your time. $500K in the bank to invest is pretty much a waste of effort. It means if you beat the bench mark by call it 5% that is only $25K. You may as well go and chase real revenue in a business. $25K for 10+hours a week is only $48/hour… That is significantly worse than what you’re making on the job anyway.
If the economy collapses? It doesn’t matter again. Generally recessions last about a year so you simply sit around and take the extra cash that was on the sidelines and buy any time there is a large correction. Your cash was on the sidelines because you want to continue buying through the dips so you get lower entry prices. Maybe you lost your job for a few months. No big deal. You had cash on the side to keep buying and get your next position.
If the market goes up 20%? Great already exposed getting richer!
What if inflation goes “crazy”? Again already own assets… getting richer! Only poor people think inflation is a bad thing.
5) I Make $50K and I am X Years Old What Do I Do? Some tough love and inspiration at the same time. First why in the world did you do this to yourself? If you look around there is money everywhere. A weekend in a high cost city driving an Uber will net you $30+ an hour. That is an extremely low estimate and yet that gets you an extra $60K per year. Why is it an *extra* 60K per year? Well, if you’re not working at least 80 hours per week and you’re broke, you have no one to blame but yourself. Anyone who believes they should be rich working 40 hours a week is going to be in for a rude awakening.
If you attempt to come back with the “but i’m smart” argument, you’re going to get laughter on this side of the web. Why? If you were actually *smart but lazy* you wouldn’t be broke in the first place right? It is much smarter to control what you can control. Go ahead and start slogging those long hours because at some point everyone pays their dues.
Finally, to put the nail in the coffin on this one… If you believe that anything over 40 hours is “too much work” then how exactly are you going to catch up to someone better than you putting in more time? If Person A is working 60 hours a week making $100K per year and you’re working 40 hours a week making $50K… You’re already making significantly less than Person A on an “hourly basis” and there is no way you’re going to catch up by working less and learning less.
Get to the grind!
6) Does Money Attract Women? Yes. Anyone who says otherwise has never made a good amount of money. Here is a general guideline since the question is asked so frequently:
$50K or less: it will be a negative to your sex life because you are not making enough
$50K – $100K: in a regular city this will be perfectly fine, in a major city it is still a detriment to your sex life
$100K-$175K: in a regular city you’re doing well, in a major city it now has no negative or positive impacts to your sex life
$175-$250K: Positive impact to your sex life in practically every city
$250-500K: Significant positive, less because of your life but because of the value of your time. At this point you’re extremely busy, you’re traveling, you’re not available, these are traits that will make you incredibly attractive. It won’t be possible to fake these trips/traits.
$500K+: It is practically impossible to blow through this type of money with common sense and everything in the previous tier are truer.
$1M+: If you can make this income at any point in your life you’re set. Your life changes because all of your actions value your time and comfort. You fly business/first class and do not care. You live a life that is impossible to fake.
Given the range and scope of this blog, it is certainly possible to get to $250-500K (before mid 30′s of course). This is achievable for anyone who wants it. When you start pushing up on high 6 figures and 7 figure numbers, you’re going to have to do something special.
Finally, there is no need to bother asking people like us. You can check out James Altucher’s blog, a multi-millionaire, who comes to the same conclusion… money gets girls.
(Caveat: before all the guys who live on shoestring budgets come in, yes you still need some social skills. That is about it though. If you don’t have some sort of social disease you’re going to be perfectly fine if you ever obtain large amounts of money)
7) Can You Hire Me? No
8) Are You Writing a Book? Maybe, not enough page views as of today. Creating a book that will take a long amount of time. It is certainly not worth it for a 5 figure payoff.
9) Industry Overview on XXX Sector? Probably, these are for Wall Street folk and the blog is currently a ~50/50 split it seems. This means it’s likely but no promises.
10) Resume Reviews? Nope! Hate them.
11) Can You Redesign the Blog? 100% agree needs to be re-done, no time-table yet though.
2) I am XX years old What do i Do to break in? We also get this one far too many times here’s the general guideline. Unless you have something spectacular you are holding back, this is the backdrop.
Analyst: If you are 25 years old or younger, keep gunning for an entry level slot as an analyst. This means you pass CFA level 1 if you have absolutely no finance experience to prove you understand the basics and then you get straight to networking. If you’re at a non-target then read our post on how to network/recruit. Now if you are from a no name school, no work experience and low GPA. You have next to no shot and are better off going to get an MBA later in life. This is the truth. As a non-target or older candidate with no experience, you need to have something to bring to the table otherwise you will lose time and time again to 22 year old candidates with banking internships, top GPAs and a great school.
Associate: If you are 26-33 years old this is your second chance to break in. If you have nothing related to finance, probably best to get an MBA.
Vice President and Above: Likely 33+ years old and you’re making a switch from a revenue generating career. In this case you should already know if you’re well qualified. Generally speaking, if you’re in a sales role or run a product line at a firm and are paid $300K+… You’re likely a good fit (this is general as most people who are in this slot know if they have the skills to move to the sell-side or not)
There you have it, it will answer 99% of questions. If you’re young you simply network and spin your resume assuming you have some skills that are transferable. If you’re in your late 20s you’re likely better off with a top MBA.
Hey guys,
Thoughts on using blender type devices like the nutribullet as opposed to full blown juicing for convenience/when you’re in a rush?
Sure no reason not to.
I do. Get a Breville… it’s so damn simple and affordable. It doubles up as a bottle too, it’s really good. You just put your stuff in, one button to blend, unscrew it from the machine and stick on your lid. Perfect for when you’re in a rush.
This is what I got… I’m in the UK but it’s probably available in your country: Breville Blend-Active Personal Blender – 300 Watt
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Breville-Blend-Active-Personal-Blender-Watt/dp/B00DGLUW4E/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1400254331&sr=8-12&keywords=blender
Thanks a lot guys, this really is one of the best websites.
What do you think of accounting as a career? Not number crunching, but more like ERP consulting
Unless it is scaleable or the skills can be leveraged it is not a good idea. IE: if it is a career that sees increases of 5-7% in salary it is not where you want to be. If that is not the case, and has scale/leverage then feel free to jump in.
We noted the only careers we believe are worth pursuing are 1) Silicon valley, 2) Wall Street, 3) some specific high end consulting such as McKinsey and 4) sales roles.
Everything else should be avoided 9/10 times.
If you had an interview Wednesday until around Noon… and haven’t heard back and its now past “normal working hours” on a Friday. Is this normal or does it pretty much mean no offer? This is for an off cycle analyst slot.
Yes this generally means no offer or at least not the top choice in the candidate pool.
Reach out in 1 week.
If the above was a 2 hour in person interview, and the company said they liked you and want you to come back in for ANOTHER 2 hours to meet more of the team… what do you think this means?
How do u act if u have a beautiful girlfriend holding hands and some random dude throws her a kiss or grabs her arm and tries to mack to her in your face showing no respect? Or if one of your guy friends or an acquaintance macks to her behind your back but your girlfriend tells u? How do u handle those situations? Beautiful women always attract trouble and too much attention. Any suggestions?
You asked the same question already
1. If someone tries to hit on her in front of you = compliment. Only an insecure man would be mad about this and see it as disrespect, if she is getting hit on it means you did well. No problems here.
2. If it’s a friend ask him point blank privately “do you like her” if he lies and fumbles you need new friends. If he says yes you try and set him up on a day with her. A legitimate friend is worth 1000x compared to a good looking chick.
Check yourself and ask what the intent of your actions are. In #1 it shows you’re confident in your ability to keep your girl and don’t mind other guys hitting On her. If she flirts + disrespects you, then you simply drop her like a bad habit and tell the guy good work and move on.
2. You’re telling your friend he is more important than a chick so he better be 100% certain he wants the girl. This should happen maybe once in a life time because your friends shouldn’t have girl problems or else they are losers who need to be cut off.
I’ve received to two job offers and would like your opinion.
(1) Investment Banking Analyst at a middle market firm (not bank). Annual salary ~$60K plus bonus.
(2) Associate Financial Advisor with the highest producing team in Canada (over $2 billion in AUM). Unlimited earning potential, sales based. Starting salary $45K but expected to make ~$250-300K in five years.
I feel like (2) while it has a lower starting wage, would have an overall higher earning potential in the long term, whereas (1) would have a higher salary up front and open up more doors in the future.
First congrats on the offers!
Second, it sounds like the investment banking job is better. By year 3-4 you should be promoted + making $225k+ or even more if you land a job on the bayside. Unless the advisor job pays $600K+ by year 10 it makes no sense to take it.
Note, we are it located in Canada so we do not know the dynamics of #2 just giving you an answer based on the numbers.
Finally, not really surprised you got offers, your questions were always legitimate and you listened to us, we got over 100+ thank you letters at this point. Just saying 😉
Good luck and make sure to run those numbers, the main issue we have with option 2 is… What are your exit ops if you don’t perform well? Always take the best risk adjusted job.
Hi,
I am an incoming summer intern that is currently selecting an Investment banking coverage team to join within an American Investment Bank in the London office. Which team out of Consumer & Retail, TMT, Metals and Mining and FIG do you insist I join? Or possibly even Lev Fin?
I am particularly interested in the skills gained and the exit opportunities.
Thanks.
Choose the sector your bank is best known for. Ie choose the sector with the largest deals, that means you have a higher chance at getting better work, increases chances of an offer and allows the best exit ops.
Go through their previously closed deals on the website.
Example: Going to the TMT team when they have closed next to no deals would be a waste of time..
Makes sense! Thanks so much.
If I may ask a quick follow on question. As someone that is just entering the banking industry, I am obviously a bit worried about the long hours.
Looking back, are you happy with your decision to pursue banking over any other career?
Thanks.
Sure it’s a great starting point. Always best to start in a top tier HF or PE firm but anything on the sell side is a great starter job. (Banking, traders etc).
Remember the first 2-3 years are the worst, survive to thrive.
How would you advise an entry level analyst improve his game while simultaneously working 80, 90, and even 100 hour weeks? I’m in college and want to get a job as an analyst when I’m finished. You mention to “learn in your twenties to earn in your thirties”, and I will definitely place a priority on my work, but I want to spend my twenties having as much sex with hot women as possible. How many nights a week is it feasible for me to go out? With effective time management, can I structure my time to be able to go out several nights a week?
We have covered this.
You essentially rely on night game and go out on Saturday and Thursday nights.
You can run some day game during the weekend as well and that should set you up nicely on a monthly basis.
With regards to holdco and opco debt, whats the flow of value? How does holdco vs opco securing the debt change the value? What about parent guarantees vs cross-guarantees?
This is too long and complex to answer in a short comment. Instead we suggest you read the following as we assume you are talking about holding companies and operating companies:
http://www.dbrs.com/research/148049/rating-parent-holding-companies-archived.pdf
Good luck!
Just want to get your opinion on starting a business straight out of undergrad? I dont exactly have a great idea yet but have a couple of smaller ones and am of the thinking to just go for it and even if the first one fails to just keep at it trusting myself that I will be successful. What is your opinion on this? I could probably get a boutique investment banking/ non MBB but good consulting job. Thanks for your advice.
You are young enough to both work and build a business on the side.
Unless your business covers your living expenses best to do both. Once the business covers your expenses go ahead and take the leap of faith. If the business is not profitable and does not provide liveable income it is not a risk it is a terrible gamble.
You will have a lot of down time at work to juggle if need be.
Hi,
I had an IB analyst interview last week on Tuesday with 2 VPs and an analyst, and it seemed to go quite well. They said they would get back to me this week. How long should I wait before I send a follow up email? I was thinking of sending one tomorrow. What would you suggest I say? Should I follow a standard template or do you have something more specific?
Would love your advise.
Thanks 🙂
Wait 1 to 5 business days (ie: earliest is next day) do not email the same day it will come off as unprofessional, like you are blasting them to everyone.
Template:
1. Dear xxx
2. Thank you for the interview.
3. I enjoyed our conversation regarding xxx and learning xxx and xxx about the firm/group
4. I still believe I would be a great fit because of xxx, xxx and xxx
5. I look forward to hearing from you soon
6. Regards, name
No more than 4 sentences.
Do not email or contact for another week after you send the thank you letter.
Finally, if possible send 3 different ones for each person to make them individual (make it clear they were not cut and paste jobs). If it was a group interview one email to the VP you believe liked you most is your best option.
Sounds good, thanks!
One more thing…what would the appropriate follow up be 1 week after the thank you email if you haven’t heard back yet?
Nothing it is a dead lead at that point.
Send your email during a time when it cannot be missed ie: around noon.
Why did you delete your recent tweet on more responsibility/starting a business?
Too many tweets in a day. Yes we also delete all @ and or connect tweets within 48 hours or so.
What are your thoughts on andropause? How can men prevent it and beat it if they go through it?
Do not know, suggest you consult a physician/health blog. We do not cover health in detail here.
I got in touch with a guy on LinkedIn and he said I could call him to chat. I call on the day he asked me to call him and he wasn’t there to pick up. So I sent another message back on LinkedIn explaining what happened (I called twice; no answer) and whether he could give me the next best day for him (and more importantly the best time).
Well I called up more times afterwards to no avail and another LinkedIn message a few days afterwards, but heard nothing back since that very first initial message he gave me.
Did I do something wrong or is it just “on to the next one”?
On a glance looks like you were pestering him.
Once you get the time set to chat:
1. Call leave voice mail
2. One email 2-3 sentences max
3. Wait
If he doesn’t respond move on.
When you are driving around your city or a closeby town and see a sexy chick do you pull over and try to approach/get her number? I have been refraining from doing this because it’s labeled “thirsty” but the truth is I am passing up on at least 5 babes a day by not doing anything.
Go for it, if she hates it then she leaves, if it works you get a date. Just don’t get into traffic accidents 😉
If u see a hot woman on the street and u say hello and give her your business card. And u tell herthat she’s beautiful and ask her that if she’s single to call u is that a good way to approach a stranger? Or do u have a better suggestion? What if u have the same scenario but no business card what should u do?
Doubt this will work, better to spark a conversation, establish rapport, then get the number.
Not sure why a business card is needed your phone works just fine, always call the girl, you’re supposed to lead.
Is geographical location a big deal with regards to PE/HF recruitment? Will be working at a top shop at a financial hub, but interested in working in other major cities afterwards.
Yes it matters but basically:
1) If you are at a top bank, you can interview at the main hubs (NYC/Chicago/Boston/SF etc)
2) If you are at a mediocre bank, you will likely be a bit more constrained to your general area, IE: if in Texas you will more likely find an exit opportunity in Texas because your work will be within a niche such as oil and gas.
Long story short is it depends on how you rank at your bank and how good the bank is. Better Bank = easier to sell and market yourself.
Which one of these be be under “top bank”: Jefferies/Lazard/Houlihan/RBC Capital/William Blair?
Recent grad starting a finance role in NY which pays 65K+10K signing + 20-25K bonus. Have ~75K cash, no debt. What do you think of living at home for a year or two to save up money? Wondering about the social costs of commuting an hour each way and not going out as much, intention is to move to NYC later.
To be honest, with a solid job and savings you should “leave the nest”. If you were in debt or going into a bad profession you could suck it up for a year.
In your shoes, get roomates and cut the cord to become a man.
Thanks man, love the blog. Came upon this recently through WSO.
Any thoughts on a rock-solid diet? Do you avoid wheat, dairy or certain foods? My goal is to keep my calories up (lifting heavy) but be healthy and energetic while keeping my costs and time down.
Already covered in post on diet, please use the search function with the word: Diet
What are your thoughts on Dan Bilzerian? He is infamous for posting playboy like pictures with hot woman, money, cars etc. Except when I’ve watched interviews with him he says that money doesn’t buy the cars houses etc. it buys the freedom to do what you want to do which is exactly what you guys preach here. Does he live the life that we’re all aspiring to here on wall street or is he just rich douchebag?
We already stated we are proud to be douchebags.
Have no idea who this person is but if he is rich and is saying money buys freedom then on a glance gets the nod of approval from us.
You work on wall street and you grind it out for 2-3 years in Investment banking. You’re one of the lucky few to land a buyside op PE or HF. Now you’re 24-25 and the hours are supposedly better at least enough to hit the gym consistently and Mack on chicks ? Is it weird to hot the club’s and bars when you’re that old ?
You say that the game gets easier when you’re older. Same scenario as above : youre successful, driven passionate, dress well etc. But where do these girls come from that you get at that age ? (Woman certainly don’t come knocking on your door when you hit that success )
Absolutely not. You can hit the clubs and bars until 35+.
You end up meeting the girls all over the place 1) traveling to meetings, 2) day to day, 3) night clubs and bars, 4) social circle etc.
You will find that successful people (generally) date much more attractive women. No surprise there!
Sounds like you’re well on your way if you’re done with IBD, go ahead and start amping up the game.
Also travel to some international cities.
Is the delsey you recommend for carry on or check in? Does it fit the small regional jets(50 seaters)?
It fits for all international flights.
When you fly private there is no baggage check in so not sure what you mean there.
So it’s for the overhead compartment – you carry it with you all the time?
I was asking because the airport I’m nearby is serviced mostly by smaller planes that have smaller overhead and usually I gotta check my bag if its too big.
Gotcha, strange situation. You should ask the airline and make sure the dimensions match.
Generally international carry-ons are ideal for the majority of flights, but go ahead and double check with them.
Starting med school end of this year but I have a great business acumen, graduated with double major in econ (honors) & bio from a top college. All I care about is making money, but also security, would you recommend becoming a MD or get an MBA with my goals in mind?
If you have no job experience or finance experience it will be very difficult to jump to Wall Street. On a glance would suggest the doctor route if you’re already well on your way.
Any advice for a “stock market for beginners” book?
I am studying for an undergraduate architecture degree and I want to start building a base knowledge of the financial industry.
Thank you.
Approved products section has a book to read.
Whats the difference between a distressed debt fund vs a credit hedge fund? How does the workload differ, and do they have any different hiring preferences?
Not a ton of difference in terms of hiring preferences. The name alone says it all.
With distressed debt you are working with higher risk debt/high yield. This means you want experience dealing with riskier investors/instruments. (Mezzanine/sub debt etc.)
In that case someone who worked in restructuring would be a better fit for a distressed fund compared to a guy who was used to working with higher rated debt.
I am a college student in the process of starting an investment club. It will be entirely student funded and run with advisors from all across the industry. Any advice as we get started or for sustained success?
Unfortunately, can’t help much here as none of our writers have started an investment club in college (only joined/been a part of them).
I’ve been involved in a student investment club that was a great success. How many members and how long do you anticipate each member will be involved for? Also, what are your objectives of this club?
I’m not sure if this is feasible for you but ours was set up as a “real dollar” (money was provided by the school) fund where students would present ideas to the rest of the class and there was a voting process whether or not to include a security in a portfolio. We had advisors to give us general advice such as asset allocation and get us thinking on the same page as each other to work cohesively.
There’s a lot more details I can give if you leave contact info I will fwd along.
What are your recommendations on blogs to read ?
– I read WSP consistently but am looking for other GOOD sources out there, and there’s a lot of bad stuff out there so not sure who to trust on whether not it is good information.
What type of information.
Financial Samurai = talks about personal finance, we don’t see eye to eye at all with regard to relationships though
Danger and Play = Health/game, we don’t see eye to eye on finances though
Those are two we can recommend.
I was bored and felt like jotting down a quick list on being an “alpha male”, feel free to add or comment on any of these:
1. Take your vitamins
2. Invest more than you make each month
3. Minimize taxes
4. Lift weights and don’t half ass
5. Don’t half ass anything
6. Have good posture
7. Set goals
8. Talk to strangers
9. Look people in the eye
10. Read the news
11. Read books
12. Be an entrepreneur
13. Have at least 2 hobbies outside of work
14. Develop a teachable skill that anyone will value (personal finance, nutrition, fitness, cooking, etc)
15. Know how to cook
16. Know what carbs, protein, and fat are
17. Be financially independent
18. Don’t rely on only one person or one source of income (ie a job)
19. Have a healthy sexual relationship with at least one woman
20. Help others whenever possible
21. Have a good pair of shoes for every occasion
22. Associate only with other alpha males or those aspiring to similar lifestyle
23. Call your mother at least once a week
24. Write
25. Don’t take anything too seriously
26. Travel, even/especially alone
27. Make your bed everyday
28. Don’t drink too much beer
29. Have a beer every once and a while
30. Smile
Alpha is whatever you want it to be. Your list is fine.
what do you guys think about investing in money market funds? good or bad?
You already asked this question above. Treat it like a savings account.
I’m a female, just graduated college and will be starting a BB banking job in a a few weeks. I read many of your posts and while you give lots of useful advice, almost all of your posts are geared towards men. As such, a few questions:
– As a woman, how do I maximize chances for success in the office? Obv. apply all the advice here (work smart, mentors, navigate office politics, etc.), but what are the defining characteristics of a successful female professional? What makes you respect/admire a female colleague?
– What makes a woman desirable to someone like you? Looks are a must, but what else?
Thanks!
1) As you stated there is no difference to success for a male vs. female. Contrary to popular belief Wall Street is fairly meritocratic if and only if politics are correctly played. On the buyside it is even more meritocratic.
2) Generally, for women on Wall Street the issue is most are able to 1) navigate politics well but 2) fail at showing maturity/work ethic. There is a joke that you never try to outshine the female intern, it is not a joke because the MDs will generally give the female worker less hours. Instead of taking the lower hours and simply going to party, think about your group/space/industry and begin asking how to improve processes at work. The post on top vs. bottom analysts will give you a lot of ideas. So we suggest brushing up on how to come off as more of a workhorse. The best Wall Street employees that are women are all known for being work horses.
3) A top female colleague brings on the work herself. What this means, is again your hours will likely be lower because people will assume “she’s a girl and can only take 70 hours a week”. The best ones again are able to take on more responsibility themselves. This doesn’t mean asking to get coffee, this means being able to add value to the functioning of the group instead of simply processing and “doing as your told” particularly in year 2.
4) Most successful men who don’t have issues with women realize the following: they want a girl who looks good, is loyal and has a bubbly/fun personality (not snarky and sarcastic). Essentially anything you’d expect from a feminine girl. There is no interest in careers, competitive drive or income (they already have all that going for them). This day and age, most people are not trustworthy (men and women) and have simply slept around so much that there is nothing beyond a hook up. That is simply the name of the game, for better or worse and a girl who checks off the qualities above would easily find a suitor.
Whats your opinion on the book “the game” if you have read it?
Read it. However.. it is far far far far too old to be useful anymore. Too much has changed.
Would pass on it.
Thanks, just started it, so what parts and lessons would you say are worthwhile paying attention to and what part would you disregard? it seems to me the magic and canned openers stuff is out dated but the mental “inner game” stuff could still be useful?
Throw it in the garbage and read this if you are a beginner.
Models: Attract Women Through Honesty
Hello guys, so happy to have stumbled upon this blog recently. I am a student who just finished his third year at a top 5 school (according to USNews) with an atrocious GPA (~2.5).
I was originally a premed but decided that route wasn’t right for me. All of my extracurriculars are medicine-related. What can I do from now until graduation to land a full-time investment banking position after I graduate? If IBD is impossible, how do I break into finance in general? Even if I’m not doing investment banking and work in what you guys call tiers 3-5, would you still recommend me to go into finance compared to medicine, from a purely monetary perspective?
Too many moving parts but on a glance from a money perspective:
1. Delay graduation by a full year
2. Work multiple finance internships
3. Get your gpa above a 3.0, no excuses
4. Apply apply apply
Medical is not something we recommend, too much debt, too much time and too many life experiences are lost.
You are going to have to work 40x harder than you have worked over your last 3 years. That is not an exaggeration. Get your life in order, no joking around. Being from a top 5 school is a gift as you will have many companies recruiting, you need to absolutely fix that gpa + résumé.
Thanks. If you were to recommend one option, should I spend this summer doing an internship, or taking classes to boost my GPA?
Do both. If you can’t do both you have no chance. Here is how you do it:
1. Three JUNIOR COLLEGE courses. You must get an A. Not an A-. Now your gpa goes up
2. Get an internship (unpaid is fine)
3. When you interview people will assume your junior college classes were from a freshman/sophomore summer because you have an internship on your résumé.
4. See what happened? Higher GPA, internship & no penalty for taking “3 general education classes over a summer at a JC”
5. Take basic finance courses get As
That is your best shot, delay graduation by a year. Get a summer internship (legit one for next year) then leverage that to banking in your final semester/year.
Good luck! We don’t pull punches here, your current set up is horrible for finance so you have to take MASSIVE action. That is the best way to work the system. A sub 3.0 simply won’t cut it, find a way.
I made several mistakes during the last few weeks of my internship (turned in work of very poor quality and appeared overly emotional). While I still received the offer, I know I finished at the bottom of the group. I want to be one of the top analysts full time. Should I worry about my reputation with certain people or do I essentially have a clean slate? How do I make sure I start off right?
Overly harsh on yourself. If you received an offer it means your work was good.
1. Don’t make the same mistakes twice and
2. Make sure you know who matters and who does not matter in the firm
Overall you have a GOOD slate, not a bad one because they would not give you an offer if they didn’t like you. Consider yourself in the middle of the pack, ie: all of your concerns are unwarranted.
Finally, you should shop your offer around if you really feel there are people there that don’t like you.
What’s your opinion on this #yesallwomen tag and more specifically feminists in general
The fact that they are trying to turn this kid into a poster child for misogyny is not only disgraceful and inaccurate but incredibly narcissistic
Try to avoid feminists at all costs. When you encounter one use the classic move as we outlined in our post on the shooting…
1) Smile
2) Nod and agree
3) Ignore
I like this – will be sure to follow.
How do you prevent yourself from getting so riled up about someone else’s opinion that you are able to stay calm, smile, nod and agree? (If it is some clear bullshit)
Just the mentality that they don’t impact on your life?
If you follow the above this will never happen.
If someone is full of it or is stupid just smile, nod and ignore.
If someone can get under your skin and change your emotions, you already lost.
What are some ways to cure narcissism (I am)? I am sometimes not able to empathsize with people and a lot of people consider me an asshole when I’m not trying to be.
No need to cure it, just change your tone of voice.
You are probably in your 20s, you will become more empathetic in your 30s when you’ve failed more and you see clear disadvantages for others.
I have 3.25 GPA from a top 10 school and was able to land an IBD position at a top coverage group at a BB. My contract is for 3 years, so I plan to recruit during my second year. How important is GPA for PE recruiting? How should I approach it? Thanks.
Minimal impact.
People will argue for days, but the truth is that if you are ranked at the top + have good connections with your MDs at work it will not hurt you come PE recruiting time.
Congrats and good luck! Make sure you get ranked at the top starting in year 1.
Awesome, thanks! I know that GPA is used to screen resumes. For banking recruitment I just networked a ton, and made sure I got the interview. How is the process different with headhunters? Are there any centralized resources that talk about PE recruiting in general that you’d recommend?
We have covered this in many posts already
1) Number one contact is your firm and MDs
2) Next best contact is headhunters which will be provided to you by senior analysts at your firm
3) No resources are going to be useful, you’re putting the cart in front of the horse. You need to get ranked at the top, make friends with the right MDs then apply. Recruiting after college is no longer structured
Simply put? Go get ranked at the top 10% before you do anything since you are on a 3 year contract. After that worry about recruiting. As it stands this is a waste of your time and you are better off practicing excel work/studying the sector/group you are joining.
Looking for an honest appraisal of my future chances on the street.
Military and DOD through my twenties, lived in a small military town.
Decided to destroy my comfort zone, realized the only way up was out, no contacts, no familiarity, no excuses. Military and DOD taught me to get work done and leave the complaining behind. Moved to Salt Lake City (mainly due to the Goldman Sachs presence), enrolled at a two-year. I am out here focused (perfect GPA, honors courses, honors society, community service, etc.), hoping to turn this drive into a career on the street and eventually at a hedge fund. Got accepted as a transfer to Columbia and Stanford.
The only issue eating at me is age. If I push it, I may finish by 33/34 (no MBA, ~35 with an MBA). I’ve seen a few threads on this over at WSO, but there doesn’t seem to be any real answer (I keep seeing max 30 for an analyst, max 40 for an associate).
I came here seeking the truth, and have yet to leave disappointed. With that I ask, am I just flat out too old to pursue a career in IB and ultimately a hedge fund?
If I am, what are some other viable high-finance options (perhaps more suited for my age and accomplishments)? If I am not, what kind of barriers and limitations am I looking at and what might be a decent path from here on out?
Any advice welcome, thanks in advance. This blog changed my life.
Your situation is complex the truth is the following, again as you know we don’t mince words:
1) too old for Analyst, not even close
2) not too old for associate but likely need the MBA
3) to fix your chances you need internships in finance
It is unclear exactly how old you are, but the best move would be something like this.
1) Get an internship on Wall Street, doesn’t matter how low on the totem pole because you don’t have an MBA
2) You should probably go ahead and leave for a better university such as Colombia, but triple check your recruiting resources as there are some positions out in Salt Lake city.
Basically you want the following if you really want to do Wall Street by the time you are 35ish.
1) Multiple finance internships (at least 4-5, work during the school year)
2) Top tier MBA, the undergraduate degree will be washed out anyway, so if you can go to a top 10 MBA after the school in Utah you’ll be fine
3) apply for associate level positions
Finally… run the math while you may really want to go into Wall Street your post suggests you’ve done well in the military and have a good amount of cash saved up. There may be better opportunities there. While we give advice on the Street, the real takeaway from this blog is this 1) do what is financially best for you over the long term and 2) ask if it will help you on a personal basis as well, over the long-term.
wallstreetplayboys,
I’m at a turning point in my life and I need an honest advice. Be brutal if you have to.
I am 22, recently graduated from Electrical Engineering at a state university. My old me was stupid not to set priorities straight when I was in college. The results, I barely graduated with a GPA above 3.0. Plus the fact that I’m an international student makes it harder to compete in the job market. And I wasn’t at all active in looking for an internship when in school. My education was funded by my parents. So I’m growing up taking everything for granted.
I’m ready to do everything to fix my life before it is too late. I just need to see some advice from another person’s point of view.
I’m still actively looking for a job in the field. I have about one year to do this. But what if I can’t land one? Should I continue doing my Master in Electrical Engineering in hope of getting one after graduation? (I hate it but yes, my parent will have to pay for me if this happens. I just don’t see how I can afford it otherwise)
On the other hand, should I sign up for finance classes at a community college here and hopefully do well enough to transfer to a top target or second target school? What are the chance?
Finally, I think it comes down to whether or not my education as an engineering student will harm employment opportunities if I go the 2nd route.
What are your thoughts on this? And advice?
Thank you so much and I just want to say that you’re doing a great job.
Based on your background there seems to be two options.
1) get a job now
2) get a masters degree
With a 3.0+ GPA you should be able to obtain a position at a firm. Network hard and use all of your connections to land a job. On a glance it makes more sense to at least work for one full year and get some money in your pocket and a sense of individuality. Then you can revisit a masters degree and simply use the degree to land a much better job.
If your family is paying for everything, they are likely well off, tap them for possible jobs as well. Be aggressive
The community college idea doesn’t seem to make sense, have not seen people get a BA then do a JC again then transfer a second time for another 4 year degree.
You have to also consider your legal situation:
1. You can legally only work in fields related to electrical engineering while on your F1-OPT visa status. Good news is that you get 2.5 years because you have a science degree. If you can spin your role in a company towards engineering, you’re good (i.e show that the job is relevant to your degree).
Now if you work outside your degree, the government ninjas aren’t going to come down and nab you, but when you apply for an H1 visa in the future they will hold that against you.
2. You get 1-2 years per level of education (2.5 years for BSEE and 2.5 after MSEE etc), so definitely work. This blog is an excellent resource for real world realities – work experience almost always trumps education. And you’re getting paid.
3. If you do go with a Master’s degree (to maintain status while you look for internships/jobs), do it in the field you want to be in. Just because you have a BSEE doesn’t mean you can’t get into an MBa or MCIS program. There might be pre-reqs you will need to take when you start, but if you’re parents are paying for it, the cost of extra credits shouldn’t matter.
4. Don’t believe that limiting crap that because you are an international student that you are not going to get jobs. You’re not going to get a job because you didn’t get aggressive and intelligent – Don’t just apply to a few jobs on monster.com, go out there and network like crazy,look up every friend on facebook and linked in and ask them if they know who is hiring, go to every career fair in a 50 mile radius. Dress sharp, have simple but kickass resume and talk to people. Most places won’t even ask if you are a permanent resident or citizen (save certain companies and government/military jobs) and only bring it up if directly asked.
# 4 gets me. Thank you so much for your advice.
I recently read your post on depression. What do you think of “burn out”? Is this a real phenomenon?
Burn out is essentially doing too much of something you dislike for a long period of time.
This is common on Wall Street because most people on the Street are 1) miserable, 2) doing it entirely for the money and 3) don’t know how to have fun outside of work.
Everyone has to do things they don’t like. The trick is to make sure you’re doing at least 1-2 things per day you enjoy to keep a balance. This can be hanging out with buddies, lifting weights, reading a book etc.
Essentially? Burnout is self inflicted and can be avoided, but certainly is real.
The funniest burnout email/goodbye letters definitely come from Wall Street though. The meltdowns are unparalleled.
Whats the best way to maintain good looking and wrinkle free skin? How can we prevent wrinkles as we age? How can we get rid of wrinkles lets say on our forehead? Any herbs or essential oils? Any tips?
Best answer has been two items 1) fish oil 5 caps a day and 2) juicing in particular juice carrots, tomatoes and leafy greens.
Do not know anything about oils or serums, generally healing from outside is less useful than healing from the inside.
I don’t recall you ever mentioning business brokers here. If you can’t get into an investment banking boutique but want transferable experience, what do you think about an internship at a business broker? With a good firm, you could get valuation and financial modelling experience, as well as other transferable skills. The deals would likely be much smaller, but as a result the deal flow would likely be faster.
We do not know anyone in this space and cannot comment.
In terms of an internship, anything is better than nothing and it sounds somewhat related. If it is your best bet, take it and then try to switch in the future. Always about your other options.
Hi WSPB – two questions for you in the area of the leveraged markets:
1. What’s the point of putting a 1% floor on a leveraged loan when they are basd on L+Xbp and L is only around 22bp right now?
2. What is the advantage of financing with HY bond vs. a leveraged loan, I see the market shifting away from lev loans into HY bonds.
Any insight you could give would be greatly appreciated.
If you’re asking about LBOs, that’s not a great question to leave in a comment but will give the highlights instead, probably best to start with HY versus leveraged loans.
1) What are the differences? Generally 1) HY is unsecured (leveraged loan usually secured by an asset), 2) Maturity range for HY is usually longer in years (2-5 years longer), 3) Interest rate is fixed for HY versus leveraged loans (as noted by the L+XXXbps), 4) what do they have in common? Generally B++ and less rated. As you can see immediaately there are reasons to use HY versus a leveraged loan, the two that stand out the most and 1) secured, 2) variable versus fixed rate and 3) investors may drive your structure (maybe you can only fund if it is a HY product versus leveraged loan etc.)
2) The first point is a bit confusing as generally a L+125bps+ would be considered a leveraged loan, on a glance the rate is too low in your example but will proceed anyway. Essentially, a leveraged loan is used when the company already has a high debt load and wants to take on more. Since the asset is secured, it is generally created by a group of banks then sold so the rate you are seeing is simply the best structure they could come up with for the client.
This then by default is why we assume you are talking about an LBO. You take your regular debt loads then need more funding to fill out the rest for the transaction, therefore you go to High Yield debt or a leveraged loan. Debt as source of funding today can be quite high which is why you’re seeing a lot of these types of deals (rates are so low).
Hey WSP,
Tonight I rolled solo in a suit with a pocket square. I got eye fucked by one girl, opened, and then the other girl was instantly on me.
I pulled her out of the venue back to my place (logistics – 5 minutes walking was all you guys) and got her to my room.
She then saw I have hella school shit from a rival college. She ended up leaving after I turned the lights off. Granted she was not as good after the lights were on, but she said if I fuck with the lights off I have a small dick.
Is this just LMR? Do you guys initially fuck a girl with the lights on or off in a ONS?
Honestly laughed out loud from this story, “cockblocked by lighting”. Never heard of this.
Simply chalk it up to the game.
One note, generally you just try to hook up (lights on) then the girl will say something or simply not care. Ie: don’t stop momentum by randomly standing up and going to turn off the lights.
Sounds like a random story you will laugh about in a few weeks… Or even as you read this response.
Hey WSPB, you are the only manosphere website left anonymous (even heartiste who wasn’t willing to show his face had been outed), so what steps did you take to stay anonymous while blogging?
Also, is it possible to stay anonymous if you want to use adsense and amazon affiliate?
Thanks for your insights.
1) pay someone or use a fake identity for all accounts
2) we don’t consider this blog as part of the sphere at all, you can read above and we will happily help women if they want to break into Wall Street
Basic steps to take: 1) all fake info, 2) layers of fake info by fake names where you can hand 5+ close friends your passwords (all accounts) etc. We actually did a post on this you can search for it.
Anonymous blogging is basically a fun journal.
What do you think the main points are to hit in a DCM interview in a group focusing on HY and Lev Loans?
ie:
Good answers to:
Why this group?
What do you hope to gain from this group?
etc.
Granted, I know you’re not the biggest fans of capital markets, but if its a great opportunity and a foot you may have into banking, you’d want to ace the interview.
Thanks!
Sure for DCM it is very similar to ECM which we already answered here, but will go ahead and flip it for ECM.
1. Explain you are most interested in debt investing
2. Explain you follow the debt markets (know the high levels numbers, libor, 10 year, 30 etc.)
3. You hope to gain knowledge in xxx and xxx debt instruments which you know xx group is well known for (go through their tombstones)
4. Then you soft sell when they ask about your 5 year plan “while I don’t know if I will do DCM for the rest of my career I know that I am most interested in debt instruments/debt raises/debt investing and believe DCM will give me a good overview of the market.”
Basically 1) tell them you want to work with debt, 2) no mention of equities, 3) go through tombstones as usual to find what they are good at and simply say you are most interested in that type of work (same spin).
Thanks a lot – really appreciate the effort you put into this site and the thorough answers you give on this page. Keep it going, please.
Before IB full time training starts, the Training the Street is sending us an online pre-accounting test.
A. Recommendations for how to do well: websites, books, articles etc that you recommend?
B. What happens if you fail the test? They say it is to gauge your understanding and see where you need to review before the actual training starts
C. How important is this test to rankings etc.
You are worrying for nothing/wasting your time
1. Doesn’t impact your ranking
2. If you fail it means you don’t deserve the job, by fail we are referring to content you will be taught during training
3. No resources to recommend because it is a waste of your time to study for it, you are better off taking excel classes. We have also stated in there past financial modeling classes are also a waste of money (models are pre-built at the bank).
There you go, no more worries.
Will be moving to a new city soon. What’s the suggested bedroom set-up for an incoming full time IBD analyst?
Not sure what you mean, generally best to get roommates, have a stereo system + tv in your room and you’re good to go.
I think some of your writers have commented about learning how to dance Salsa in the past.
I’ve recently started taking lessons. Have taken about 8 private lessons and a month’s worth (i.e. 4 group class sessions) of beginner lessons; now having “graduated” up to the pre-intermediate level. My main goal in learning salsa is to try to incorporate it somewhat into my night game. I have yet to venture out to a strictly salsa-only club; but I can see myself using a lot of the concepts from the partner dancing in non-salsa venues as well.
I will likely continue to dabble in some group classes here and there; if simply for the social aspect of it. But, I’d also like to take a few more private lessons to further develop some of the more specific skills that I can use during night game. My question is: what things should I ask my instructor to focus on during the privates?
So far the lessons have been structured as 1st 30 mins is usually on individual moves/shines. 2nd 30 mins of the hour-long lessons is on partner dancing.
To give some reference, for individual moves we’ve covered different variations of the basic step (front basic, side basic, back basic, etc.), right/left turns, and some other random moves like Promenade and Suzy Q, etc.. Not sure how, if at all, these moves would be incorporated into night club game; but that’s kind of why I am asking the question … to see if I should focus less on this stuff?
For partner moves we’ve done alternative right/left turns, cross body lead, NY walk, and a few other moves. No body waves yet. Instinctively, it seems like I would get more bang for my buck during private lessons to focus on more partner moves and less indiv moves. Are there certain partner moves that are recc’d over others?
Again, my goal is to not become a performance level salsa dancer doing proper moves and routines, etc. Rather, I want to chat up girls at random night life venues, lead them to the dance floor during any type of music and incorporate some salsa type dancing to up the attraction/comfort levels during night game. And just maybe, I might venture out into some salsa-specific venues down the road, just to broaden my horizons a bit and see if that could be an untapped venue for new prospects or possibly a good 2nd/3rd date location to take a girl for some dancing.
You should take a partner to the private lessons (a friend of yours) and learn with her. Gauge the reaction of your friend to see what type of moves she likes and work from there.
Most guys, ie guys who mess it up, just do a bunch of spins over and over which are annoying + uncomfortable for her. So learn a lot of different locks/arm positions.
As an example, there are at least 10 different versions of a cross body lead, so learn all of them.
Long story short 1) take class with friend, 2) focus on easy locks/twists, 3) learn the basic spins but stop there and 4) strongly suggest you go out and practice live.
By practicing in a real setting, it is vastly different from class, you’ll learn to keep rhythm which is 100x more important than fancy spin moves. Good luck!
WSP,
I was overseas for a few years and recently came home to find out that the wife has been fooling around.
I have a couple of bank accounts in the different countries in which I was stationed.
If I file papers and go abroad, how can I get my stacks of cash out without leaving a trail for her soon-to-be hired alimony lawyers? Do I need to bounce wire transfers off a couple of the accounts?
We don’t have children and this is a “no-fault” divorce so, in my mind, the cash is staying in my pocket.
That is a terrible situation and sorry to hear about that. We suggest you contact a lawyer as we do not know the answer and don’t want to steer you wrong.
Don’t file or let her know anything til after you figure this out- that way you can buy some time. She shouldn’t get a penny of your money. Sorry to hear about your situation and thank you for your service. Good luck!
The one thing we do know is filing first is actually best.
Contact Mike over at dangerandplay.com he is a lawyer and would likely point you in the right direction. He has an ask section on his website as well.
Email me [email removed by mod] I will write you the idea and a few outlines. If you like it I can do full research to walk you through how to go about doing it.. Curiously, why did you use over seas accounts?
Contact made. Can you delete my info, please? Will keep you abreast of info if you’re interested.
fixed
In reference to the above comment, #25433. Thank you for your reply, so it is basically Associate (with MBA) or bust, which is the thought I came in with. Now I have that extra bit of motivation, knowing it can be done and knowing I what I must do in order to get there.
One more question for you guys. Do you have any thoughts regarding levels of racial animus on the street? That is to say, I’m not silly enough to believe it doesn’t exist, but I’m under the impression that the meritocratic style (and ability to office politic) can override a lot of that. Have you guys observed anything that might dissuade a black male from pursuing a serious career on the street? I don’t like to throw skin color around (I also happen to be extremely tall, 6’8″, and this tends to stand out much more), but it does seem a question worth asking. Thanks again.
Just a quick add-on, again, not using race as an excuse. I’ve never felt hindered by it before. I usually get into a spot and break down all walls through performance. This has led me to believe that initial, and subsequently, consistent performance matters and forming/nurturing the right relationships matters. The right person notices and things take off. Just wanted an honest view of it though.
This shouldn’t be an issue. There is racism in every single industry, the bigger questions were outlined for you above.
1) Is it a smart financial decision to put up 6 figures to go into Wall Street compared to your other options?
2) Do you have any finance experience? If not the best jobs are out of reach even with a solid/great MBA
3) Are you going to be able to gain admissions into a true top tier program (H/S/W)?
Those are the questions that matter. As stated you’re older, so this is not the time to be making bad/high risk and low reward financial moves.
I only need to lose about 8-10lbs to look pretty good. Then I’ll be about 5’10” 160lbs and lean. I lift weights and have a little strength, and I have a bit of muscle (currently 170) but I need to get leaner. However, my willpower fails me every time I get about half way, and I go back to the beginning again in a week or two. Got any good ways of making it IMPOSSIBLE for me to give in?
Go buy an expensive item that will fit your new frame. IE: a $200 shirt or pair of jeans (price doesn’t matter simply expensive to you). Now you’re forced to fit into it or fail.
Hang it up in your closet, first thing you will see every single day.
Depending on your body fat percentage 170 is a solid build (ie if you’re in the 10% body fat range).