Over on the Ask Us Anything section we’re starting to see the same questions come up. This post is going to address why the advice won’t change and how we can save time together.
1) How Do I improve my Diet? We have covered diet advice in a post. If you haven’t taken a look then go ahead and read the post. If you’re slogging 80 hours a week you need to be efficient and as we stated before, if you don’t want to read the post, here’s the basic outline:
Breakfast: Fruit + Protein. Worst case a protein shake in the AM and a banana/fruit bowl on your way to work
Lunch: If you have a high paying job, lunch is used to improve your political positioning so you always eat with people so suck up the $10-12 meals
Dinner: You can get $25+ from your company, do not waste it on unhealthy food. Most people will eat terribly which starts the downward spiral. There are hundreds of options online using seamless. If you don’t have to work late… then make your meal at home after your day is done.
By doing this you guarantee 2/3 of your main meals are healthy. Lunch may be hit or miss, but if you’re smart all 3 will be perfectly fine and you won’t break the bank.
2) What Bank do I Join? Again this question misses the point by a country mile. The question is, which bank will allow me to get promoted the fastest. If you have no idea which bank then go by the rule of thumb
Elite Boutique (Moelis, Qatalyst, Centerview, Evercore, Lazard, etc.)
Bulge Bracket (Goldman, Morgan Stanley, Citi, etc.)
Middle Market (Jefferies, Piper Jaffray, etc.)
No-Name Banks (simply make sure it is the same job function)
No, we will not get into a back and forth about “what exactly is E-Boutique versus not” it is up to you to make that decision but if you’ve done your due diligence the answer will be extremely obvious. If they pay above top bonuses at a bulge bracket… it’s an E-boutique. If it pays the same as a BB… it’s probably smarter to choose the BB.
After your very first job none of this matters at all anymore. From that point forward you choose the firm that is going to promote you the fastest. Think smart. It is about responsibility not prestige.
“F*** prestige get money”
Put that quote on your cubicle. People who obsess over prestige have never had a long career on Wall Street. Maximum of maybe 5 years. To put the nail in the coffin check out one of two blogs we recommend (we only recommend Danger and Play and Financial Samurai). Click on FS’s blog… notice something? He started at a top shop but his real money came in after getting promoted and generating a ton of revenue. **hint hint**
3) When Should I Work Out? Well do you even work out? If you’re under 30 years old and you don’t work out 6 days a week you’ve already lost in the first place. If you have been working out 6 days a week, you probably already have a healthy routine! See how that works? So the question is not when you should work out it is if you even work out in the first place. We got this question many times and the answer when pushed is exactly the same.
If you work on the East Coast you go to the gym first thing in the morning. If you work on the West Coast you go to the gym after work.
You can feel free to change this if you’re a morning person or a night owl but it really misses the point. The point is this:
“There is no science, there is simply consistency.”
Consistency is how you keep yourself honest. If you can make it to the gym every single day and lift correctly, you’re going to see gains.
4) What Do You Think About the Stock Market Levels? Always the same answer, do not care at all. You should not care if the S&P is at 1,700 or 2,000… simply dollar cost average into cheap ETFs such as VOO, SPY etc.
If you’re trying to beat the stock market and you only have a half million dollars or so in the bank, you’re wasting your time. $500K in the bank to invest is pretty much a waste of effort. It means if you beat the bench mark by call it 5% that is only $25K. You may as well go and chase real revenue in a business. $25K for 10+hours a week is only $48/hour… That is significantly worse than what you’re making on the job anyway.
If the economy collapses? It doesn’t matter again. Generally recessions last about a year so you simply sit around and take the extra cash that was on the sidelines and buy any time there is a large correction. Your cash was on the sidelines because you want to continue buying through the dips so you get lower entry prices. Maybe you lost your job for a few months. No big deal. You had cash on the side to keep buying and get your next position.
If the market goes up 20%? Great already exposed getting richer!
What if inflation goes “crazy”? Again already own assets… getting richer! Only poor people think inflation is a bad thing.
5) I Make $50K and I am X Years Old What Do I Do? Some tough love and inspiration at the same time. First why in the world did you do this to yourself? If you look around there is money everywhere. A weekend in a high cost city driving an Uber will net you $30+ an hour. That is an extremely low estimate and yet that gets you an extra $60K per year. Why is it an *extra* 60K per year? Well, if you’re not working at least 80 hours per week and you’re broke, you have no one to blame but yourself. Anyone who believes they should be rich working 40 hours a week is going to be in for a rude awakening.
If you attempt to come back with the “but i’m smart” argument, you’re going to get laughter on this side of the web. Why? If you were actually *smart but lazy* you wouldn’t be broke in the first place right? It is much smarter to control what you can control. Go ahead and start slogging those long hours because at some point everyone pays their dues.
Finally, to put the nail in the coffin on this one… If you believe that anything over 40 hours is “too much work” then how exactly are you going to catch up to someone better than you putting in more time? If Person A is working 60 hours a week making $100K per year and you’re working 40 hours a week making $50K… You’re already making significantly less than Person A on an “hourly basis” and there is no way you’re going to catch up by working less and learning less.
Get to the grind!
6) Does Money Attract Women? Yes. Anyone who says otherwise has never made a good amount of money. Here is a general guideline since the question is asked so frequently:
$50K or less: it will be a negative to your sex life because you are not making enough
$50K – $100K: in a regular city this will be perfectly fine, in a major city it is still a detriment to your sex life
$100K-$175K: in a regular city you’re doing well, in a major city it now has no negative or positive impacts to your sex life
$175-$250K: Positive impact to your sex life in practically every city
$250-500K: Significant positive, less because of your life but because of the value of your time. At this point you’re extremely busy, you’re traveling, you’re not available, these are traits that will make you incredibly attractive. It won’t be possible to fake these trips/traits.
$500K+: It is practically impossible to blow through this type of money with common sense and everything in the previous tier are truer.
$1M+: If you can make this income at any point in your life you’re set. Your life changes because all of your actions value your time and comfort. You fly business/first class and do not care. You live a life that is impossible to fake.
Given the range and scope of this blog, it is certainly possible to get to $250-500K (before mid 30′s of course). This is achievable for anyone who wants it. When you start pushing up on high 6 figures and 7 figure numbers, you’re going to have to do something special.
Finally, there is no need to bother asking people like us. You can check out James Altucher’s blog, a multi-millionaire, who comes to the same conclusion… money gets girls.
(Caveat: before all the guys who live on shoestring budgets come in, yes you still need some social skills. That is about it though. If you don’t have some sort of social disease you’re going to be perfectly fine if you ever obtain large amounts of money)
7) Can You Hire Me? No
8) Are You Writing a Book? Maybe, not enough page views as of today. Creating a book that will take a long amount of time. It is certainly not worth it for a 5 figure payoff.
9) Industry Overview on XXX Sector? Probably, these are for Wall Street folk and the blog is currently a ~50/50 split it seems. This means it’s likely but no promises.
10) Resume Reviews? Nope! Hate them.
11) Can You Redesign the Blog? 100% agree needs to be re-done, no time-table yet though.
2) I am XX years old What do i Do to break in? We also get this one far too many times here’s the general guideline. Unless you have something spectacular you are holding back, this is the backdrop.
Analyst: If you are 25 years old or younger, keep gunning for an entry level slot as an analyst. This means you pass CFA level 1 if you have absolutely no finance experience to prove you understand the basics and then you get straight to networking. If you’re at a non-target then read our post on how to network/recruit. Now if you are from a no name school, no work experience and low GPA. You have next to no shot and are better off going to get an MBA later in life. This is the truth. As a non-target or older candidate with no experience, you need to have something to bring to the table otherwise you will lose time and time again to 22 year old candidates with banking internships, top GPAs and a great school.
Associate: If you are 26-33 years old this is your second chance to break in. If you have nothing related to finance, probably best to get an MBA.
Vice President and Above: Likely 33+ years old and you’re making a switch from a revenue generating career. In this case you should already know if you’re well qualified. Generally speaking, if you’re in a sales role or run a product line at a firm and are paid $300K+… You’re likely a good fit (this is general as most people who are in this slot know if they have the skills to move to the sell-side or not)
There you have it, it will answer 99% of questions. If you’re young you simply network and spin your resume assuming you have some skills that are transferable. If you’re in your late 20s you’re likely better off with a top MBA.
any tips on improving conservation so you can use it when you talk to women? what are some good topics to talk to women about? they don’t want to here sports and weight training.
Sure the easiest way to improve conversation is this: Make social observations.
If you look at womens magazines such as cosmo, most of it is simply gossip. So your ability to make social commentary on those that surround you will be the easiest way to improve.
Remember that logical topics will not work.
What else can be useful in the field academic-wise? e.g double major/minor in accounting/economics, studying VBA, courses in Excel? Anything that can give me extra point
What field?
If you mean Wall Street, once you have a degree in a business/finance type major all of your effort should be spent on work experience
3.5 GPA + Work experience > 4.0 triple major and no work experience.
What do you think about the learning style offered to children? Shouldn’t children be taught in a very dry style, so that they’re used to it by the time they’re adults? Wouldn’t that cut down the amount of procrastination in the world?
We do not work in the education field so we do not know what you are referring to.
Thoughts on hiring a mentor? I’ve been following this particular individuals blog posts and advice for a while which has allowed me to generate 4K of passive income for the last 3 months in a row, he recommends I take 1 on 1 private coaching to take my internet marketing to the next level, being quite frugal $980 a month for an online mentor seems steep, but at the same time he has achieved what I see to be my ultimate vision (50k+ passive a month, location independence).
Another one we have never done.
The best advice we can give is make sure the return on investment is positive within 6-12 months. If it costs $1000 a month but you make $2000+ a month because of the insights, it is a good decision.
Can you give an overview of what the Training will be like for full time analysts? We just got information that it will be 3 weeks long from 8am-6pm with Training the Street with few hours of homework after. How intense will it be, will it be just an overview of corporate finance, valuation and accounting? Some have said that it is a “joke” others have said that it’s pretty intense. I just want to make sure I’m not getting blown out of the water by the Training period but I feel fairly confident in my abilities and knowledge.
Honestly, it is certainly a joke, a quick overview below:
1. Accounting 101, ebitda multiples, enterprise value, p/e, linking the three statements
2. Training the street, 3 statement model with a DCF linked to the cash flow statement
3. Excel shortcuts (most important part) timed formatting drills
4. Test after each session usually 2-4 tests all are easy, score 80%+ and you’re good to go
Currently I have $15k @ 6.5% of student loans, and making about $300 monthly, (so about 4.5 years till its paid off). I was initially thinking of paying it off within 20 months, but with the student loan interest tax deduction, the equivalent rate is 5.3% – so why not invest more instead, since I’m getting about 7-9% returns on average.
I understand the psychological benefits of a debt-free life is immense, but what about the psychological benefits of more money in the bank?
Love the site and what you guys do to educate the masses btw.
Well we believe the psychology of being debt free is better. Market returns have been great the last 24 months, but overall just pay it off if you can and run with it. 5% is actually quite high.
Think of it like this 5% GUARANTEED return by paying it off or 7% possible return. The 2 percent delta is not worth the risk in our view.
Hey WPB,
First off, thank you for doing such a great job. Your blog have always been a good and healthy read to maintain good mindset in different matters.
As for my situation is that I’m a Computer Engineering student in my last year and have been accepted for a summer internship at NasdaqOMX in Sweden and as a Software Developer at Ericsson during summer. I’m having a hard time to decide what company is the best to pursue for, since I have recently gotten so much interest in economy matters and financial knowledge (A lot thanks to your blog and the books that you recommend). The problem is that I don’t know which one to choose that will benefit best for my career in the future. I regret somehow that I’ve read this bachelor in Computer Engineering and not Economics instead, but what is done is done (I have plans to do a Master in Management and MBA eventually), what would you do?
I know it’s kinda “foggy” what I’ve written (and sorry for my English), but what I’m actually looking for is guidance. I don’t wanna follow the path as a programmer and change “gears”, what is the best I can do from now on?
Thank you
Sure lets get straight to the chase though.
1. What career in finance o you want?
2. What do the two job offers entail? Actual job responsibilities for the nasdaq job is hard to see with no description
3. Do you have a Shot at a top tier MBA program?
4. Do you have any finance experience?
1. Dont know yet, I don’t know what there is to combine with the education I have so far to economics.. So haven’t really looked for any specific career, do you have any suggestions?
2. At Nasdaq it is a summer internship (Technology based I think) and at Ericsson as a Software Developer (Have worked there one summer already).
I have found a link for the Nasdaq job on LinkedIn, not sure though it’s exactly that one, since in this article the projects are defined (It wasn’t like this before): http://www.linkedin.com/jobs2/view/12905812
3. Don’t know haven’t checked, I was thinking of an MBA after my Master studies and I haven’t really started them until my bachelor is finished.
4. No, nothing more than just reading the literature that you have linked in your blog. I’m currently reading Benjamin Graham’s, which I’m having hard time understanding because of the terms. I have some understanding of fundamental analyzes thanks to some courses at HHS.
In that case two quick points.
1) if you want to spin your résumé to finance after the internship, Nasdaq would make more sense as you can say you were “exposed to finance during your internship”
2) you are going to have to do your personal journey to find what job you would like. We have many examples in the navigating Wall Street post. Start with market centric or transaction centric and you can narrow at that point.
After that we can help.
1) Okay thank you. I will see what I can do, since Nasdaq is still in interview phase and Ericsson is guaranteed, I will probably try Nasdaq before. Also Ericsson called me today and wanted me to decide which I was gonna choose and I told him that if I can have an career with some economic background instead of only programming after the summer I was willing to take that 100% before. I don’t know if I did the right choice, but he told me he was gonna ask his boss about it and call me in 2 days. I did wrong I think…
2)Ok. I have searched the forums but can’t quite find those posts, can you link them somehow? Do you have any littarature that I can get started with before the “Intelligent Investor” by Benjamin Graham
http://wallstreetplayboys.com/navigating-wall-street/
Use the search function at the top right.
Unsure what you mean by your interaction as you phrased above you have offers from both correct? “Have been accepted at nasdaq and Ericcson”.
Good luck! Check back when you find what you would like to work in.
How do you keep focused? I can’t read more than 2 pages of a book before i get bored.
Sure. This sounds like a lack of interest in the topic. Start with something you are truly interested in. A biography of your favorite sports star, a book on building a car motor, a book on trading stocks.
Start with real interests and develop new ones as you read more books.
Interested to know, once your build a strong network, how do you get the most out of them to enhance your career. I feel bad asking for favours – how do u go about this?
Do not like the word favors at all. The truth behind a strong relationship is you should not be “angling” for something. A great example is a club or bar, you know the club/bar wants to have attractive clientele.
You bring in 2-3 attractive different girls for 4 weeks straight. In 1 month you will be “in” and you’ll be friendly with the staff and suddenly you”ll get free drinks, skipping the line etc.
Use this same method to networking/enhancing your career.
How can you help people? Can you help inform people of job openings? Can you get someone an interview at a different firm? Can you add value to their deal process… Etc.
The laundry list is long, so your goal is to simply give out good information/content. If they continue to simply use you, then go ahead and stop providing good information/content to them. That’s how the cycle works.
Importantly the catch is clear, you need to be of value for this to work.
I’ll repeat my question above as I think it got lost among the other questions:
What do you think about Duff & Phelps and related firms? These aren’t necessarily IB firms, or they at least don’t have huge IB divisions… however, they work in restructuring, distressed M&A, ordinary valuation work, etc.
I’m most interested in debt-related situations, but also want to build the financial modeling skills and so on… does this sound like a good solution i.e. go to one of these “not-strictly-IB” boutique firms? What if I even couldn’t manage to get into IB… would valuation work be worth doing for the financial modelling skills? Arguably I’d build them even faster, as my job would be completely focused on valuation. But I guess I wouldn’t get as varied responsibilities.
Not familiar with related firms, but Duff and Phelps in particular is a good plan B if you’re unable to secure an investment banking position.
Duff and Phelps does have some smaller scale Investment banking practices (different arms)
The second part of your question we do not know as we are unfamiliar with their deals (ie not sure about debt).
TL;DR? Take the position and use it to jump to an investment bank as your skills will be transferable.
Thanks. If I am more interested in private equity in the future (either with another firm or my own), do you think I would still need to join a bank after D&P before doing so?
I’m trying to work out if all I really need is financial modelling skills before making investments (which would mean that D&P would suffice), or if I would miss out on anything else by not being at a strictly-IB firm (i.e. not D&P!)
I hear a lot of people going from two years in IB to private equity… in those two years, I hardly imagine analysts get hands-on deal experience… they’re just grunt workers, right? So what’s the difference?
Thanks.
Sure it is a no brainer to still go to a bank instead of Duff and Phelps if you can. You have to put yourself on the other side of the desk.
Who do you interview?
1) Person at duff a phelps with some semi-relevant experience
2) Person from an investment bank with real M&A experience
You’re going to lose to person number 2 every single time because person 2 has the contacts (ie private equity firms) and he also has deal experience that is 100% transferable. There is no reason to make it harder on yourself to obtain interviews.
Your assumption of grunt work is also somewhat incorrect, the top analysts are the ones with good deal experience. IE: the good ones do end up with quite a few deals on their resume if they are in a good group. Their work is “grunt” in nature but the work is transferable because they are closing live deals. Hope that makes sense.
I’m interested in leveraged finance, debt-heavy buyouts and so on, which relates a lot to many private equity transactions. So do you think getting into the corporate restructuring/debt advisory department at D&P would give me a unique edge, i.e. I could sell that easier to transition to private equity from D&P?
They do seem to be pretty popular in this area: http://www.duffandphelps.com/services/restructuring/Pages/default.aspx Also, am I correct in thinking that the BB banks tend not to have restructuring divisions, hence the need for firms like HL (and D&P)? I guess I could twist that and say how I wanted to get into restructuring and D&P seemed like a good fit etc.
You can reply to my comment just above re: D&P, as I think the comment stream has run too far. Many thanks.
Your question has already been answered.
If you have no other options, ie: no investment banking offers, then D&P is your best shot. It will not make you more unique or give you a leg up on a bulge bracket banker with real M&A experience.
All that said, we suggest you contact a few D&P alumni and find out if they were able to make the jump, as we noted we have not worked at D&P but have interviewed a few candidates from D&P for IB jobs.
I need to get good grades for work experience, but I get bored with the work and constantly wish I could just start my own business and make money. I can do this after a couple years of valuable work experience, but in the mean time, how do I stop myself from getting distracted?
Not sure what your question is referring to. If you have a business that is already making money feel free to quit and expand your business.
If you do not have money coming in from your business then continue to work on it during your free time and perform at work to make sure you have income.
You can reinvest the income back into the business. If you are being distracted from your work/business it simply means you do not like one of them.
Just completed a internship at a (local) BB (just finished my sophomore year).
Received a return offer for another internship at the end of my junior year.
Didn’t love the work and I feel like internships are the times to try different jobs out, see what you like or don’t like, gain different experiences, meet new people etc.
Would I be stupid to turn down the return offer? I’d definitely feel that way if I regressed to a shittier internship.
Advice?
What type of work do you want to do? IE: maybe you can work in a different division in a bulge bracket bank such as S&T or try to obtain an internship on the buyside.
Would investment banks value sales experience at all, or just strictly finance-related internships? For example, if I increased sales at a few businesses and got some recommendations by them, do you think this would be valued at all? I guess it wouldn’t hurt at least…
It depends on what type of sales. If you were a real estate agent selling large homes, that can be spun.
If you are working at verizon selling a couple iPhones, not so much.
Any sales experience is always better than no sales experience.
What I meant was going to a company self-employed and helping them increase their sales fast for a short period (self-employed). Judging by your comment though, I’m guessing the answer is basically ‘sort of’, as in… no more valuable than a line dropped at the end of your resume.
If the sales role is not finance related and not big ticket items your assumption is likely correct.
Hey WSP, I already posted this a week ago but I think did a mistake somewhere as it didn’t show, so here it is :
I’m 21 and I’m currently in a reputable business school (and as I live in Belgium, it’s basically free), I’ll have finished my bac in a year and I’ll have to choose a specialization for my master’s degree.
I’ve crossed HR, social companies management and accounting/audit from my list as none of those 3 appeal to me, which leaves me with a finance (I’m not very good at math but you wrote it doesn’t matter that much) and two marketing degrees : “marketing and strategic intelligence” and “digital marketing and sales management” which is a new degree they just introduced. Here’s a few questions :
– I’ve heard finance gives better job prospects and salary than marketing, is it true and in what proportion?
– Belgium is small, if I choose finance, will I have to move (to london or something) to advance my career quickly? I don’t mind but I’m curious.
– If I choose marketing, is it best to choose the traditional marketing degree (“marketing and strategic intelligence”) or the very specialized digital marketing degree. The latter I think would make it easy to land a first job as it is currently in demand but it seems like a closeted field from which I couldn’t climb very high in the hierachy. What’s your take on it?
Thank you in advance for your help.
1) we covered compensation in several posts. This is based on the USA. First 3 years $140-180K (roughly) next 3-4 years assuming associate promote ($220-280K) roughly. You can compared this to your field, we have no experience in corporate marketing careers.
2) unfortunately do not know the Belgium market, you’re best served at your career center
3) again we cannot help here (unfortunately) as we do not know the career trajectory at a marketing firm such as Silverstein.
We strongly suggest you contact alumni from your university and compare their salaries to alumni from finance (also from your university) beyond the first question we cannot help much.
Okay I will, thank you.
Saving and investing are priorities but health comes first. How can someone save on food and still eat healthy? Cost of living and rising food costs are getting expensive so how can we save money on groceries? What supermarkets do u recommend?
We covered diet in a post.
http://wallstreetplayboys.com/a-working-mans-diet/
In terms of saving money, the best way to approach it is to essentially time your purchases with seasonal fruits/vegetables and be sure to eat correctly (ie: protein in the morning, cutting out major basic carbs such as pasta by noon etc.)
You should simply choose the cheapest market near you, this is going to be a personal preference.
Dressing for success is also important but can also be expensive. What are some great and economical places to shop for high quality clothes yet not breaking the bank. We want to save and invest but not go broke when going shopping for clothes.
This was also covered in a post:
http://wallstreetplayboys.com/wall-street-and-fashion-dont-break-the-bank/
1) Invest heavily in Shoes + Suits
2) Cheaper accessories at lower end stores if you’re younger (ie: a tie is a tie)
3) for plain and simple shirts (white/light blue etc) you do not need to get name brand items
What do u guys think about investing in coops in nyc? Good investment or bad investment?
We do not recommend any real estate investment excluding a full renovation where you can immediately add value to the property.
Read your tweet about “pickup community being a joke”. I think in general most of the guys that are in that community are looking for help just like anyone would be looking for help to steer a finance / Wall street career.
What are your thoughts on RSD (real social dynamics)?
You claim that getting laid is easy in the USA. I’m sure the majority of your readers and majority of younger guys ages 18-30 would disagree because most guys do not get laid consistently. What are you doing that you are getting laid consistently?
1. We have never attended or used any RSD material.So no comment here.
2. The answer is always the same here, approach women you find attractive and carve out your own game. No one in the world deserves to get laid, you can either continue to improve and avoid making excuses or sit at home and do nothing. The best course of action is always to go out and meet new people/girls etc.
You can read this for an overview on changes to make if you’re younger. http://wallstreetplayboys.com/10-ways-to-evolve-your-game/
WSP,
I was able to secure a hedge fund internship for this summer as a sophomore in college. Your interview section was particularly helpful throughout the interview process.
Going along with the mentality of this blog, the fight is only just beginning. I will have 3 other interns and I want to be the best. What can I do to prepare so that I can perform at the top level while am in NYC?
The skills as an intern are going to be extremely similar to investment banking because you are not going to be tasked with creating or coming up with investment ideas on day one.
We suggest preparing under the assumption you landed an investment banking job on day one.
http://wallstreetplayboys.com/how-to-prepare-for-your-investment-banking-analyst-job-the-truth/
The only difference we would make is this.
Follow the markets religiously
Most of your actual work will be similar if you’re at a merger arb fund or a long short equity fund. etc. Again you’re simply an intern so you’ll help make charts/gather data for analysis etc. The goal is to have error free work and by the end you can come up with a few ideas to pitch once you understand how the group works.
Congrats and good luck! We got a lot of positive emails this year with people landing jobs. You are correct, the fight has only begun since college is a layup compared to real life and Wall Street work.
Recently read about the bankruptcy of Energy Future Holding and saw a lot of investment banks working with different creditors. My question is how come creditors (hedge funds, private equity shops) pay for the service of an investment bank to represent them when they could probably do all the work themselves considering how these buy side shops consist of mainly former bankers?
Investment banks are the intermediary not the decision makers. The buyside decides what the asset is worth at the end of the day.
The bankers are the ones finding people ways to 1) help come up with valuation and 2) much more importantly they are finding people to purchase the actual asset/take on debt etc.
Essentially how would the buyside know of every single transaction without the sell side? The answer is they wouldn’t. Secondly how would a company raise money itself without knowing hundreds of thousands of investors? Again they wouldn’t because it would take a lot of time and effort to track down enough capital to fund a specific investment. Third the sell-side *assists* with idea generation, it would be quite difficult to know if a Company is considering a sale. They are not going to tell that to a specific buyside client because they would immediately push up the stock price (similar to when you see rumors of a company being shopped – stock usually moves up several percentage points).
In the case with restructuring, what’s the purpose of financial restructuring bankers? They are just representing their clients (creditors) when negotiating, why can’t the majority of sophisticated buyers _(hedge funds/PE funds) represent themselves seeing seeing their previous backggroind ?
Please review the response above.
Again it is the same concept where you have many issues 1) legal, 2) knowledge of companies that are considering bankruptcy/restructuring, 3) you need to have a negotiating side to the deal (IE: there are representatives on each side)
The third part seems to be escaping you, your idea would work for small scale acquisitions. If you work at a major company you may not even hire an investment bank because the acquisition is simply a rounding error ($10M or less). Once you start to scale there are legal ramifications (look at major acquisitions that go bust and the lawsuits).
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Easiest example, put yourself on the Company side of the table.
1. Do you know everyone who would be interested in buying your defunct company?
2. Do you know every loophole to maintain the most value from your assets?
3. Do you trust that the person you will be selling to is offering you fair value?
4. Do you know every industry interested in your company not just buyside clients but potentially splitting the business line and selling to two different parties?
As the complexity increases the need for specific knowledge on the restructuring side increases. But yes, some small deals do occur without bankers. The larger it gets the less likely the Company knows all of the nuances. Finally, if you’re on the buyside you’re going to try and pay the least amount possible so there would be no representative on the Company side to help fix a lowball offer.
What do you guys think about Good Looking Loser’s philosophy that young guys should prioritize their social/sex life in their 20s over money and career? Obviously this doesn’t work for young guys aiming for Wall Street careers, since IB demands 100% commitment to your job for the first 2-3 years, but what about for the rest of us? The logic behind it seems to make sense:
1) You will never have better access to young hot pussy than in your 20s
2) When you’re young, sleeping with hot girls is one of the most fulfilling things you can experience
3) The life experience you gain in your 20s can give you the inspiration to start a successful business down the road
4) Most people graduate college and shuffle into soul crushing office jobs. If most people are doing it, it’s probably a shitty idea.
So what do you think? Does it make sense to prioritize your social/sex life when you’re young?
100% disagree. The only thing we agree with is don’t follow the herd.
1. Do not get a soul crushing job, the only people who get soul crushing jobs are the people who attended bad universities and did not search for a lucrative career. Too lazy to pay the price up front.
2. You will sleep with more attractive women in your 30s than your 20s, this is not debatable assuming you have succeeded in your career/business.
3. Without searching for a real career/business early, you will never develop the skills to launch a business in the future.
Everyone who parties it up in college will get paved by people who choose the mature route of finding a scaleable career/business. In fact, you can still have just as much fun while you’re doing this in your 20s.
The logic is horrible at best and we actually like some of the stuff he puts out.
I think you’re being a little harsh on today’s young guys, WSP. You gotta remember most high school kids receive horrible guidance from their parents and educators. A lot of guys end up at a “bad” school simply because nobody told them the truth. You guys have said on this blog:
“As you go through life there are three major decisions that will dramatically shape your future. Yes you can recover from a bad decision but the three turning points are as follows: one turn when you decide to go to college, a second turn with the subject you study and a third and final turn when you sign your first offer letter. If you make all three turns correctly the wind is now blowing at your back. You are firing three times and you better make each bullet count”
A lot of guys fuck up each of those three decisions simply because they didn’t know any better. They found the red pill too late, and now they’ll have to play catch up the rest of their lives if they want to make it to the top. So why wouldn’t they just throw in the towel and spend their 20s chasing pussy? No point in playing a game you’ve already lost.
For guys in high school and college, you’re morons if don’t put your nose to the grindstone and do whatever it takes to get to Wall St or Silicon Valley. But for the guys that missed the boat, get a cool job like a bartender and start chasing the pussy. What do you have to lose?
That’s fine if you truly want to give up.
If you’re in your 20s you are significantly discounting the value of your time. When you are 21 years old you can work 80hours a week, hit the gym everyday and still find time to party on weekends. Why waste this energy solely on partying?
You can sack up and choose any of the millions of ways to make $100-150K+ per year we outlined on another post. By thirty you’re cruising.
No problem, again we like a lot of his stuff but that is simply bad advice. If you are spending that much time trying to get laid you’re going to see large deterioration in other aspects of your life and it is simply not worth it.
When your life is firing on all cylinders there is less convincing to do because the people you meet already want to be approached by you in the first place.
What are some other high paying jobs you can do with degree in Finance? Maybe something with less stress involved and/or less hours
We have covered the basic map on “Navigating Wall Street”.
This question has been covered a few times in this q&a as well.
Good luck!
What u guys think about investing in low cost index funds? What about etfs? What u guys think about vanguard?
Covered already in our post on s&p 500 at 1,700.
You simply dollar cost average into low cost mutual funds that mimic the s&p and you’ll be fine in the future.
So we like them.
Great post about college. What do u guys mean by saying that after 30 it gets easier to get girls. From my understanding your growth hormone levels and testosterone levels start to drop every year after 30. At 18 you could have had and satisfied a lot of women in one day. After 30 its not the same your recovery takes longer as well as the refractory period increases as we get older. What can a guy do to speed up recovery and decrease or eliminate the refractory period so that we can sleep with multiple women on a daily basis?
Not sure what you mean, if you are having issues with libido there are many products out there such as Viagra.
We are not in the camp of playing the notch count game as it usually destroys your personality. You end up sleeping with women you would never want to be seen with in a public space (been there already).
A pre-med friend of mine asks, would you use the “Year One Net Income < Debt load = Yes" formula to determine whether or not going into medicine is a good investment?
We do not recommend medical school as a career option due to high level of debt and opportunity cost. It is generally a myth that medical is the road to riches, but rather it is a career made for people who truly wish to go into the field (not for the money).
Generally it fails the test. So from a financial perspective it is a bad move, we are making no recommendation from a life perspective since we have no experience.
All that said, he should reach out to people who work in the medical field as we do not work in the sector, our friends that do have told us privately they would not do it again if they could turn back the clock.
We’ve noticed the same thing on our end. Literally all of my friends who have a parent who is a physician were told they should avoid the profession completely. My friend says half of his friends who began as pre-meds have decided against pursuing a medical career, many opting for consulting or investment banking.
Gotta say this does not sound like good news for the U.S. healthcare system.
Although I know you cite that ECM/DCM is a step below “IB groups” – but given the opportunity and where I currently am, its an amazing opp.
Specifically:
How do you prepare for a strictly capital markets position interview – supporting the origination desks?
Thanks in advance.
There is no major change to the interview process. The only difference is the following:
1) find out what sectors the company does well in (ie: oil and gas/health care, or By type of capital raise)
2) follow macro trends heavily as ECM is highly tied to macro upswings, have a strong understanding of all the major trends
The rest of the process is essentially the same, get info on the bank/group and spin your résumé to fit the position.
Great post. You must realize something though there will never be another time in your life besides college where you will be hornier than ever and crammed into a institution with other young and horny females everywhere u go who are willing to screw all day. It’s not going to happen. I speak from experience. Picking up girls during your college years in school is a joke. No game needed. I still dont get why u say that picking up girls is easier at 30 then when younger. Can u clarify and explain your opinion?
If the quality of the women you are sleeping with does not improve in your 30s it means your overall value as a man declined.so again, college should not be the “best time of your life”
If you are saying you can rack up a ton of notches, that’s true,but what do you lose? You lose A LOT
If you are wealthy in your 30s you can quit for 10+ years and chase girls 24/7… Butofcourse that would be a bad idea as well.
If you give a man in his 30s 24 hours a day to game and he can’t out pull a college kid who spends 24 hours a day on game… That’s a major problem for the 30 year old.
What are your thoughts on retail forex trading? Do you think its a game which cant really be beaten and there aren’t people out there who actually make a living doing it in their bedroom or at the local starbucks?
100% against it. Retail people making money off a bogus program are making it because of one reason, luck.
I mean just trading forex in general. At home not for a firm. Is there absolutely no hope of ever making money in forex trading. Trading your own account?
Exact same response. The ones who succeed in starbucks or in their pajamas with no resources at home are succeeding because of one reason… luck.
If it sounds too good to be true, it is.
Is forex trading absolutely not worth pursuing at all? Even if you study for years, research and test your strategies etc. You cant win in the long term?
You are correct for a retail person it is 100% luck. We have answered this question twice now, not trying to be nasty.
IF you want to make money with foreign exchange related activities, we suggest you work for a large institution (ie: investment bank, buyside etc.) there you can make money in the space. You will not make money at home in your pajamas with no resources or at starbucks also with no resources unless you are lucky.
You will learn two things 1) why retail investors will only make money via luck and 2) you will learn a lot more about how to value such transactions.
The final reason to do this, is you’ll also have a salary if you work for a firm.
how to do you increase your value as a man every year after 30 especially in the eyes of women? society says that your options decrease with age. Why is it that focusing on notches and getting laid with as many women as possible is a bad idea and it destroys your personality?
1) for men approaching 30 it should be getting easier if you have made the right life decisions. You should be physically attractive (face) you should have 20+ years of working out under your belt so your body will be in great shape… You should have a large chunk of cash on the bank. That is basically all you need to do, combined with improved social skills it should be significantly easier to meet people for you. When you hit 40 is when it starts to get tougher. We strongly suggest you find a mentor in his early 40s who has gone through this progression already.
2) in the beginning feel free to simply understand women/the game. After that you should develop a niche if girls you like. If you continue to hook up with women who don’t fill this niche you are 1) lying to yourself and 2) developing a cynical manipulative mindset. This is not how you want to live your life. Once you reach a point where you are comfortable picking up a new girl within a month or so, there is no point in sleeping with women who are not really attractive to you. Again you’re teaching yourself to be fake which is terrible for you long-term.
I’m starting a job with no 401k (small tech company). Should I go with a Roth IRA or Traditional IRA? Any other investment vehicles I should look into? My plan was to max out the $5k annual limit and the rest of it to pay off debt first and then money market account afterwards.
Your plan is solid, $5K in a Roth, pay off debt and then put some savings away. Once you have ~4 months of living expenses in a money market account, we would start investing in stocks/bonds etc.
There is no point in putting 1year + into a money market account because you won’t keep up with inflation at 2-2.5% when money markets yield about 1%.
Money market accounts should be treated like emergency savings.
How often am I morally obligated to see my family each year i.e. go back to my mother and father’s suburban house in the middle of nowhere?
You have no obligations to anyone if you are an independent person.
If your family is dragging you down or is a net negative in your life there is no reason to visit them.
If you have a positive relationship with them (ie: supportive and helpful) then feel free to see them a few times a year. The decision to visit should be a personal one.
I just want to make sure you guys are sure. The last 3 years in a row as a Commodity Pool Operator, I’ve raked in north of 200% returns each year trading the futures markets for myself and clients. Would my background as enlisted military and getting an MBA from Emory or Umich using the GI Bill, not put me near the top of the stack for being hired onto Wall Street?
Same answer. Feel free to ask around.
Unless your returns are linked to a real firm (ie: not personal trading account returns) all that bullet means to a recruiter is “serious and interested in finance”.
With good networking and high marks (GMAT and high pass) from an MBA you have a chance at Wall Street…. However… Top jobs? Highly unlikely.
The top jobs will go to people who already worked at top firms (bulge bracket and buyside experience).
Why?
There is no point in taking additional risk by hiring someone with less real work experience.
Wall Street is risk averse when it comes to hiring. There is no reason for the top firms to take on high risk people unless there is a significant and compelling reason to do so. (Such as connections etc.).
Thank you for the reply. It is greatly appreciated.
I’ve realized a lot of confidence is tied to “having things” ie. good looks, good job, good fitness level, hot girlfriends.
Obviously these will always help, but when you lose one of these, how to you keep a sustained level of confidence up? Ie. you didn’t get the bonus you want, you gained 15 lbs of water weight in your face (exaggeration), your girlfriend dumped you, etc.
Search function – unbreakable confidence
If a girlfriend dumping you is your biggest problem you’ve lived a privileged life.
People have been through wars, and won. Battled cancer, and won. Came back from near disabilities… And walked again.
You will get over a meaningless event like weight gain, a bonus, or a girlfriend.
hello WSP,
how important are a man’s shoes in his wardrobe for business meetings, interviews, presentations etc? What color, style and brands would you recommend and with what color suit?
Thanks!
We covered the basics in a post, for a interview for entry level.
Suit – well fitted
1. Navy or 2. Dark grey
For shoes:
1. Brown brouges (with brown belt)
2. Black cap toe (with black belt)
Cost of shoes should be ~$250 for high quality.
Most entry’s level people do not have much client interaction, but you need a solid suit for interviews, drafting sessions and interviews. The rest of your suits can be lower quality until you make more money to afford nicer items.
Never skip the $250 shoes though, it is 1) uglier and 2) more costly in the long run.
Shoes are much better long-term with high quality items.
so ive stuffed up… but im trying to correct myself.
I want to make it to the buyside, am I on the right track/ can i get there/ what should I do.
I have first class honours in finance (with a major in accounting) (not a top uni). I then tutored for a year and lectured in investment finance, corporate finance and derivative securities. have 3 big 4 internships (audit, tax and corporate finance). I have completed level 1 in the CFA program
I have been investing in the stock market since the GFC. Definitely spent over 20,000 hours in the market and researching.
Now i have 1.5 years experience – have 4 months job in equities research at a boutique (got fired so wont write this on CV anymore but could use it as an internship – i was young and naive about the workforce). 9 months in multi-asset finance covering bonds, stocks, and managed funds at a HNW firm (got fired very unfairly cause they didnt want me to take holiday but they made it look like maternity contact and even have a good reference letter from them). now i have 6 months work experience as a resource analyst for a top publication that goes out to 9,000 people.. little modelling is involved. i effectively analyse the stocks based on experience, pick a recommendation each month and get my performance tracked. I also analyse the economy and write my views on gold and other markets.. im currently on 65k.. i know I’m underpaid but 1) i cant complain because of my track record and 2) im in a good position with responsibility, a lot of exposure to think and learn and get good exposure to contacts.. like I met Jim Rickards and Marc Faber recently.
anyway thats a bit about me. I know i stuffed up.
I want to finish my CFA becuase I love stocks and want to stay in the industry. Do you think its still possible to make it to the buy side… i’m getting pretty good at what I do and am making a name for myself. Will a CFA help? what else can i do? or should I do an MBA at a top uni if I’m serious.
Thanks for feedback.
If you are serious (based on the dialog above) it sounds like an MBA is a better fit. This is a glance, if you mean buyside as in Asset Management or long-only then you have a decent shot with the CFA (after 2 more years).
We would choose the MBA because 1) your resume is not cookie cutter, 2) you have minimal experience with wall street, 3) if you are referring to buyside as PE/HF then a top MBA + entrance Wall Street will make the process much easier for you.
I’m talking long only or hedge fund (I realise for HF you need an MBA)..
do you think my resume reads okay? I mean, even though I’m anaysing stocks every day, I work at a publishing company.. so would they take me serious? I think I can walk the walk when it comes to investment ideas, thinking outside the box and understanding whats happening in the economy.. although, I have no modelling experience at all!
why do you say I have a decent shot with two more years at AM or Long only?
lastly, would you turn my first job (4 months) into an internship or get rid of it completely? I was doing earnings quality analysis and some modelling.
cheers
1. The truth is your resume is light. Not being rude, but you have no Wall Street experience so it is going to be a tough road to the buyside. All that said we outlined the best strategy above.
2. No they will not take publishing company experience seriously on the buyside (particularly not at a hedge fund), your best bet is to get legitimate Wall Street experience. Either banking, Equity Research or at least Sales and Trading.
3. Better shot at AM and Long-only because the recruiting is less structured and less intense relative to Hedge Funds. Unless you are talking about Capital Group or the high end positions you can spin a CFA to at least obtain interviews at mid-sized firms.
4. Your call. We do not recommend lying on your resume because Wall Street does background checks at the top firms. If you say you were an intern but then they find out you were fired, you’ll lose the job.
thanks for the above.. one last question..
buy legitimate wall st experience, does this include working in stock broking?
I’ve also thought about studying geology to stand out since I’ve noticed a couple of equity research players like people that can prove that they understand the geology background. what do you think?
Cheers.
If forced to choose, no on being a stock broker. They are a dying breed on the street and don’t make much.
Tier 3 and above in our post on navigating Wall Street is considers front office work.
No on geology, not sure where that idea came from, unless you need the degree for a specific niche.
What are your takes on hiring a personal trainer? How do you knpw whether or not they’re legit?
We would use a personal trainer if you are trying to break through a plateau and can’t seem to make the jump. Using a personal trainer all of the time makes you rely on them for motivation which is unhealthy.
1. When choosing a personal trainer ask “Would i want his physique” if the answer is no then move on. Do not get training advice from an out of shape person at 24 hour fitness who cannot compete with you in a weightlifting/sprinting competition. Keep it simple because you get what you pay for.
2. If you want advanced training go to the source. If you’re training for football it makes more sense to contact an ex collegiate or professional athlete. Given the price points, once you start taking advice from Division one athletes you’re getting quality information.
The best way to know if someone is legit is by their results. If they have not competed at a high level (at least Division 1 athlete) they likely don’t know much. If they are a coach they need to have a laundry list of successful athletes (that would be the exception to the *show me* why i should listen.
How do keep a conversation going when you have no personality? I tried getting out of my shell last night and going out… started talking to a girl and honestly I wasn’t that attracted to her or bothered about the rejection much (which followed). But I couldn’t keep the conversation going, it didn’t really even start… I had nothing to say, or ask… I just asked stuff like “how come you’re here” and “where are your friends” (she was alone).
Now it went OK in parts, I checked out her tongue piercing and random stuff, but zero real interest from her. I tried to go for a kiss fairly early on because I felt like taking a risk and she rejected that, which was no big loss… but if it were someone I actually found attractive, I wouldn’t know what to say or do. This girl was admittedly boring but still, I was constantly searching for things to say or ask in my head but had nothing. I have read your articles about going out but it’s another thing to actually go out and do it… when I’m in the actual environment, I have nothing to say. I’m just staring at this girl completely blank…
Maybe she wasn’t interested in the first few moments and that killed it early on because I had no idea how to start the conversation…
Well you answered your own question in the first sentence. Going out and simply running game with no content is like showing up to a basketball court with a football. You’ll make a few shots but it is going to be ridiculous and you won’t get anything long-term.
You should 1) take up new hobbies (dancing, art, yoga, music, weights, anything) and 2) begin reading and expanding your interests.
If you stay in your comfort zone you’ll always be boring, once people can peg you as X type, you’re going to become boring to everyone. Go out and do things you would never do, sky dive, hang glide, go to a foreign country. You need to live an interesting life or else you’re going to lose out time and time again to people who are constantly expanding their horizons.
Hi, Im going into my final year of university next year living in the UK, I have a summer internship in operations at a top BB, Is it possible for me to be able to turn this internship into a front office full time role and if so how is best to go about this. Or would my best bet for IB be looking at smaller boutiques as my lack of front office internship would turn off the big firms? Thanks very much for any advice you can give me.
You have it right. 1) do not ask to be moved to IBD before you start because they will be insulated and you have shown no performance yet and 2) make sure you get a return offer.
Once you perform on the internship you need to “forget the rest of school”, this is an extreme comment, but what we mean is network like mad once you finish your summer internship. 9/10 you’re shooting for boutique firms, the top BB’s are likely not going to take you unless it is the firm you are working for (just giving you realistic expectations).
You’ll have a shot once you get the return offer, be sure to hit every single possible small firm to mid sized firm in your surrounding area. Good luck!
What’s your opinion on the saying “Study what you like” – what If I like art history, but there are 0 job opportunity? How would you balance interest in the field and employment?
Do what you love is a trap set up by the masses.
More like this: find out what you are good at.
If you are very good at something 99/100 you enjoy doing it. Then find a career that fits your skillet.
If you are truly great at art, it makes more sense to work at a place such as advertising, which is relatively close, or graphic design = more money than than a street artist.
Unless you’re in the 0.01%, in that case you’ll be rich doing that task. Ie: the world champion in badminton is likely very well off, but the next 10 guys are not.
Long story short, find something you are very good at and then find a related career that pays well for it.
Should elite fitness and aesthetics be number one priority to men in general? In your opinion what do u consider to be elite fitness?
Training for aesthetics means you’re training to impress others and we would discourage that as a reason to be elite.
Elite or top 10% should be measured qualitatively.
1. Guys at the gym should apologize when you cross paths/bump shoulders
2. Guys at the gym should randomly ask you for fitness advice
3. When you are shirtless in public people should stare because they cannot help themselves
Quantitatively: try to be at the high end of your healthy BMI but under 10% body fat.
If you are an investment banking analyst how do you think we should put working out into our busy work schedule? I mean I really do not see time to. I.e. if investment banking hours are M-F 9am – 2am and Sat/Sun: 11am – 9 pm right? Fitness and health are really important to me and I’ve been an athlete my entire life I just don’t see how you can fit in a good workout with a demanding job. (Note: working in IB)
This depends on your priorities, based on your answer you’ll be one of the people who get through banking in shape.
you can work out ~5-6 days during an 80 hour work week.
1) 45 minute – 1 hour on Monday – Thursday
2) 1hour + on weekends
As an analyst you do not need more than 6-7 hours of sleep a night during the weekdays. This is also why we recommend living close to work (walking distance) your firm will more likely than not have a gym inside the building so even if you work from 9am to 2am you can crank 45 minutes at the gym.
On the 45 minute days you work out one body part
On the weekends (Friday to Sunday) you can do more
You’ll be surprised and happy to find out your body can take 6 hours of sleep at age 22-24. After that you will work 20 hours less per week. 2-3 years of pain for a lifetime of gain.
Appreciate the response. I’m going to try and hit the gym as much as possible. My work doesn’t have a gym in the building and uses Equinox Fitness. Have you used them?
Have heard mixed stuff.. My investment bank gives discounted prices on Equinox memberships. I just don’t want to be hugely out of shape by the end of 2 years.. That would be awful.
Do you workout whenever you find the time in investment banking? ie during dinner hours or before work like before 8am? or after work at like 2 am?
Also, what workout regimnes, blogs, eating/diet plans and sites do you follow or recommend?
1. Equinox is great. That said 24 hour may be better for you due to hours, you should find out and make certain you have a wide range of times to show up
2. Morning or evening. IE: before work or directly after work. Most East Coast guys go in the morning, west coast is generally mixed (many have market hours and go in the evening)
3. The key is being consistent, so we would stray away from using a sporadic schedule (when possible)
4. We don’t have any to recommend. We covered diet already:
http://wallstreetplayboys.com/a-working-mans-diet/
May do a post on working out. You know the drill through, short amount of time = compound lifts. Long amount of time = Cardio + weights.
I have the opportunity to rent a crazy cheap room in a really great location near the Midtown Financial District. It’s walking distance from the office and in a great central location for night life activities, the only con is it’s in a real dumpy apartment building that the management company clearly doesn’t care for. Not to mention there’s like 24 building violations listed with this place online. Considering I’ll be working as an IB analyst in the summer and not really seeing the light of day anyway, is it worth living in a shithole just to save money? The rent for this place is under $900/month.
My other alternative would be to rent a place with two buddies for about $4500/month ($1500 per person) in a much nicer building that is also a bit closer to the office. I guess my dilemma is should I rent the shitty cheap apartment in the central location or the more expensive nicer apartment with friends that is also closer to work.
As long as the building is not going to be shut down, it actually makes more sense to go ahead and slum it for 10 weeks.
You are not going to be focused on partying during your summer analyst stint. Summer is about pounding out the hours (face time) and learning as much as you can. It is only 10 weeks.
We would say go ahead and suck it up, use the cash to pay off debt or use the cash to max out your Roth IRA this year. Both of those are going to be better options.
Finally, with a crappy apartment you won’t be interested in returning home, making the long hours much more bearable.
Actually, this is for a full time analyst gig that starts in the summer. I suppose you advice still holds? I’m just concerned about being locked into an apartment that’s falling down, but the price tag is too attractive to turn down.
Got it. We have no information on the condition of the building so please use your best judgement there. Visit the site etc.
If you believe the conditions are bearable, then simply do it for 1 year. You will easily save your full bonus check (and more) giving you a chance to leap ahead in terms of financial independence.
Your first year is the most difficult so you can save some money and then find roomates in year 2.
You guys are amazing. Love your mindset. I want to know what are your priorities. What do u guys focus the most personally? Do u guys get depressed ever? What r your hobbies?
Everyone has a down day, we are all human. The best way to get out of a slump is to think about it rationally. IE: the world is not going to end and we are likely making a bigger deal out of an event than it really is.
That said the focus is much of the same:
1. Expand horizons by trying new hobbies/things – Every month you need to do an activity you’ve never tried before. Skydiving, surfing, playing chess. Literally anything to keep your brain alive
2. Continuing to stay in great shape physically
3. Reading
4. Building new relationships
Hobbies are up to you they can range from sports (tennis, golf) to music, painting etc. Simply find a few you enjoy and try new ones out every couple of months.
How am I supposed to get an internship when there are people at better universities than me, with actual experience (which I don’t have) and better contacts? It seems there’s too many people chasing too few positions. Why would even a small regional investment bank hire me when there’s probably some Ivy kid out there who would love to get that position?
Pretend you are the interviewer.
If you are going head to head with an ivy league candidate with the exact same resume, you’re going to lose 99/100 of those positions.
You have to stand out. We did an entire post on standing out as a non-target.
If you’re in school at this time the best way is clear: Get internships in something related to Wall Street.
If you have no job experience, you will have a next to 0% shot of getting an investment banking internship because they will always choose the IVY league /Target candidate with a similar resume.
You have to work up. Get an internship in AM, Private Wealth, Financial Advisory etc etc. Prove your interest and go back to pounding the sand to get internships.
Thanks. I was just asked for a CV, so now I’m making one… but I have no real work experience to put on there except from at my father’s company abroad… that’s about it. Do I just leave real-world experience out?!
Cutting to the chase, that is a major issue.
You need to search for lower level finance internships ASAP so you can be considered for front office roles by the time you graduate.
Not sure what you mean by real-world experience, but no experience is real unless you are working for an actual company. It sounds like your experience with your dad’s company abroad is the best thing at this point. Use that and try to get low end internships ASAP.
Cannot stress this enough, get internships ASAP (does not need to be a front office role – eg: IBS/Research/S&T) if you are a non-target. Simply needs to be finance related.
Is it OK if I get a commercial loan-related internship at GE Capital?
Yes any internship is a good starting point. Take the best position related to the field you wish to work in.
Beggars can’t be choosers.
Do your best and take the best opportunity.
I’m trying to get internships ASAP. However, I got a really good potential opportunity but only for next year. So I need something this year still, however I want to keep in touch so that they don’t forget me and so I show a keen interest… so I’m a top pick when they need interns the following summer.
How often should I keep in touch to a) show interest but b) not cause annoyance. It’s basically 11 months until she said to officially contact me back, but I’m thinking maybe once every 3 months until then to ask how the firm is doing etc? This is actually a unique private equity firm, but it seems fairly relaxed (not super type-A IBers). Thanks.
P.S. It’s been email so far… should I continue with email or phone them up periodically to add a personal touch/mix it up?
1) Do not waste their time. This will guarantee they have no interest in ever interviewing you. If they said contact them in 11 months… Contact them in 11 months.
Unless you have a legitimate reason to contact them, you are essentially wasting their time. 1) You are saying you can’t follow directions and 2) you are saying their time is not valuable and 3) you’re saying you’re disorganized. Do not do this.
Even if you are think they are not type A IBers, do not waste their time.
In regards to earlier about fx. I asked several times because I wanted clarification and I feel a bit crushed after spending years on it and its time ill never get back if we think of it like that. I still feel like it is beatable but just extremely difficult for most people. I don’t see why a simple strategy like buying the dips on a trend wont work as long as you practice proper money management. Could you please enlighten me in this? That there is absolutely no way to beat it even with hard work?
Feel free to try if you like.
Again, how are you going to compete with people who have 1) algorithms to beat you to the dips, 2) people with PHDs and 3) people who have extensive real life trading experience with millions and billions of dollars?
If you don’t have an edge how are you going to make money? You do not have an edge if you are staring at a stock chart.
It sounds like you are going to try anyway, so feel free to attempt. Again we suggest getting a real position at a firm to trade, at least you get a a salary.
I understand the point you’re trying to make. That being said if history has shown that whenever ‘x’ setup happens 80% of the time it will go where we want it. Obviously past performance isn’t indicative of future performance but if we were to look for high probability trades because history has shown us it works 8 times out of 10 are we not to take it? Cant history be our edge? If 80% of the time x happened, y happened after. Why cant we use that to make a trade?
You stated…
“Obviously past performance isn’t indicative of future performance”
then…
“Cant history be our edge?”
In short, the answer is no.
Again it looks like you are going to attempt this so we wish you the best of luck, but you have been warned. The quotes within this response alone make it relatively clear that you’re spinning wheels. Not being mean here, again we have already answered 4 times at this point.
Good luck!
I’ve been successfully trading futures for years. Take what I have to say to heart.
If you have spent years of your life pursuing trading and have essentially come up dry, walk away. Take the stop, and walk. How much of your life are you going to sink into this investment? Another few years? An account? Your life savings?
Secondly, I seriously have to question your effort if the best you’ve come up with is “just buy the dip in a trend.” The majority of short term trading is exploiting the range bound nature of markets and reversion to the mean, so your focus should be there and not on trends. Furthermore, most new traders I come across get taken out on stretchers due to trends mainly because they get caught fighting overflow and averaging down.
I don’t know why the retail crowd clamors over this shit but the market is not some game that magically adheres to the principle of “if XYZ occur then Q will fall by 0.36% 8/10 times.” If you really want to pursue trading, I’d recommend starting with Morad Askar, he has some good material as far as managing risk and volume profile.
But your best bet, go get a career, be frugal and learn about covered (or unleveraged) writes on quality dividend players. Nothing is better than being paid to cash in on discounted cash flow/yield and flipping the script if you get assigned until your cost basis drops wayyy down or they buy you out for a premium.
Thanks for your reply. Do you think fx is unbeatable for the retail crowd? Or its just that 99% dont make money so its not worth pursuing?
Could you please explain your last paragraph more? I dont completely understand it.
When you are reading books, would you solely focus on one, or read multiple at the same time? From your experiences, which one is more efficient for learning and understanding?
Good question.
Two is usually the best (opinion) one for improvement and one more for leisure.
As an example it would be smart to have one book on structuring a business (highly cognitive)
Then have a second book on the go that can be read in transit such as a biography
Some people can juggle multiple books so if you can do that, go for it.
What do u guys think about testoterone replacement therapy? All this talk online and offline about once u hit 30 plus u should get on it for life. They say that resistance training and food is not enough and that no matter how natural u r sooner or later your natural testosterone production will decline especially every year. No amount of resistance training will stop that or reverse it. Thats why u see so many older gym rats that look good because they take it. Any thoughts?
You should go ahead and take control of your own health
1. Get blood work done
2. Compare on an annual basis
This way you can decide if it is right for you. There are many guys who see their health decline dramatically in their 30s and other guys who simply keep cranking till mid 30s. Everyone has different genetics so make that call if your levels decline too much.
Good luck!
How do I get myself to go out and practice night game on my own without feeling like a loser? I have no one to go with, and this prevents me from going out because I think the minute I leave the door alone I’ve confirmed that I’m a loser for having nobody with me. It’s a wall.
Your fear is illogical
1. Travel alone. There you go out alone all the time, what is the difference between that and doing it at home? Literally nothing.
2. Most people would never go out alone. Therefore doing it yourself makes you more bold and confident. Even with a capable wingman you will do better alone. This is tried and true.
3. You are a loser if you stay at home. It means you don’t want to improve and you would rather sit at home and sulk while everyone else is getting better as you sit at home doing nothing.
Simply put all of your fears are irrational and the only “loser” decision is sitting at home waiting for a girl to fall in your lap.
I guess this is a wake-up call. Thanks, I’ve bookmarked this and will read it again next time I want to go out.
I’ve thought about the same things that “X” has. My question is what do you usually say when people ask you who you’re with? Don’t you feel a little weird saying “I’m just by myself” Sometimes this gets a weird look from a girl.
Also for college and social circles where most girls and guys go out in large groups its harder to go out and approach a group of 5 or 6 sorority girls who go out together and you’re the one solo guy approaching them. Do you agree?
There are a billion answers to these and no do not agree. No matter where you are if you are a confident and legitimately successful man there is no way a woman asking what you are doing in a bar is going to rattle you one bit.
Answers:
1) I am here to drink all my problems away (wink and smile)
2) Ohhh I’m actually here just swiping for tinder dates (Joke tone)
Personal Favorite:
1) I am here to support the bar (wave at bartender who brings you a drink) – IE: have the place on lock down already.
Strongly suggest both of you re-read the original answer to this post. Going out solo is part of beginner stages of the game. Think about it like this.
If you were a in shape millionaire with a sweet outfit on (custom made or tailored) with a nice watch on your wrist… Are you really worried about what average people think of you? So how could they possibly impact your mind.
Zero shot.
You guys really killed it with these answers. If they are even concerned to begin with it means they are self conscious about how they are viewed by others which is weak inner game.
Agree with everything you wrote.
As soon as you care what others think of you in an open/new social environment. You’re cooked.
Thanks, but I’m not an in-shape millionaire with a sweet outfit on (custom made or tailored) with a nice watch on my wrist… I guess you’re saying act “as if” though.
Yes act as if.
Ask “would a confident man worry about this?”
99.9999999% answer will be no.