Over on the Ask Us Anything section we’re starting to see the same questions come up. This post is going to address why the advice won’t change and how we can save time together.
1) How Do I improve my Diet? We have covered diet advice in a post. If you haven’t taken a look then go ahead and read the post. If you’re slogging 80 hours a week you need to be efficient and as we stated before, if you don’t want to read the post, here’s the basic outline:
Breakfast: Fruit + Protein. Worst case a protein shake in the AM and a banana/fruit bowl on your way to work
Lunch: If you have a high paying job, lunch is used to improve your political positioning so you always eat with people so suck up the $10-12 meals
Dinner: You can get $25+ from your company, do not waste it on unhealthy food. Most people will eat terribly which starts the downward spiral. There are hundreds of options online using seamless. If you don’t have to work late… then make your meal at home after your day is done.
By doing this you guarantee 2/3 of your main meals are healthy. Lunch may be hit or miss, but if you’re smart all 3 will be perfectly fine and you won’t break the bank.
2) What Bank do I Join? Again this question misses the point by a country mile. The question is, which bank will allow me to get promoted the fastest. If you have no idea which bank then go by the rule of thumb
Elite Boutique (Moelis, Qatalyst, Centerview, Evercore, Lazard, etc.)
Bulge Bracket (Goldman, Morgan Stanley, Citi, etc.)
Middle Market (Jefferies, Piper Jaffray, etc.)
No-Name Banks (simply make sure it is the same job function)
No, we will not get into a back and forth about “what exactly is E-Boutique versus not” it is up to you to make that decision but if you’ve done your due diligence the answer will be extremely obvious. If they pay above top bonuses at a bulge bracket… it’s an E-boutique. If it pays the same as a BB… it’s probably smarter to choose the BB.
After your very first job none of this matters at all anymore. From that point forward you choose the firm that is going to promote you the fastest. Think smart. It is about responsibility not prestige.
“F*** prestige get money”
Put that quote on your cubicle. People who obsess over prestige have never had a long career on Wall Street. Maximum of maybe 5 years. To put the nail in the coffin check out one of two blogs we recommend (we only recommend Danger and Play and Financial Samurai). Click on FS’s blog… notice something? He started at a top shop but his real money came in after getting promoted and generating a ton of revenue. **hint hint**
3) When Should I Work Out? Well do you even work out? If you’re under 30 years old and you don’t work out 6 days a week you’ve already lost in the first place. If you have been working out 6 days a week, you probably already have a healthy routine! See how that works? So the question is not when you should work out it is if you even work out in the first place. We got this question many times and the answer when pushed is exactly the same.
If you work on the East Coast you go to the gym first thing in the morning. If you work on the West Coast you go to the gym after work.
You can feel free to change this if you’re a morning person or a night owl but it really misses the point. The point is this:
“There is no science, there is simply consistency.”
Consistency is how you keep yourself honest. If you can make it to the gym every single day and lift correctly, you’re going to see gains.
4) What Do You Think About the Stock Market Levels? Always the same answer, do not care at all. You should not care if the S&P is at 1,700 or 2,000… simply dollar cost average into cheap ETFs such as VOO, SPY etc.
If you’re trying to beat the stock market and you only have a half million dollars or so in the bank, you’re wasting your time. $500K in the bank to invest is pretty much a waste of effort. It means if you beat the bench mark by call it 5% that is only $25K. You may as well go and chase real revenue in a business. $25K for 10+hours a week is only $48/hour… That is significantly worse than what you’re making on the job anyway.
If the economy collapses? It doesn’t matter again. Generally recessions last about a year so you simply sit around and take the extra cash that was on the sidelines and buy any time there is a large correction. Your cash was on the sidelines because you want to continue buying through the dips so you get lower entry prices. Maybe you lost your job for a few months. No big deal. You had cash on the side to keep buying and get your next position.
If the market goes up 20%? Great already exposed getting richer!
What if inflation goes “crazy”? Again already own assets… getting richer! Only poor people think inflation is a bad thing.
5) I Make $50K and I am X Years Old What Do I Do? Some tough love and inspiration at the same time. First why in the world did you do this to yourself? If you look around there is money everywhere. A weekend in a high cost city driving an Uber will net you $30+ an hour. That is an extremely low estimate and yet that gets you an extra $60K per year. Why is it an *extra* 60K per year? Well, if you’re not working at least 80 hours per week and you’re broke, you have no one to blame but yourself. Anyone who believes they should be rich working 40 hours a week is going to be in for a rude awakening.
If you attempt to come back with the “but i’m smart” argument, you’re going to get laughter on this side of the web. Why? If you were actually *smart but lazy* you wouldn’t be broke in the first place right? It is much smarter to control what you can control. Go ahead and start slogging those long hours because at some point everyone pays their dues.
Finally, to put the nail in the coffin on this one… If you believe that anything over 40 hours is “too much work” then how exactly are you going to catch up to someone better than you putting in more time? If Person A is working 60 hours a week making $100K per year and you’re working 40 hours a week making $50K… You’re already making significantly less than Person A on an “hourly basis” and there is no way you’re going to catch up by working less and learning less.
Get to the grind!
6) Does Money Attract Women? Yes. Anyone who says otherwise has never made a good amount of money. Here is a general guideline since the question is asked so frequently:
$50K or less: it will be a negative to your sex life because you are not making enough
$50K – $100K: in a regular city this will be perfectly fine, in a major city it is still a detriment to your sex life
$100K-$175K: in a regular city you’re doing well, in a major city it now has no negative or positive impacts to your sex life
$175-$250K: Positive impact to your sex life in practically every city
$250-500K: Significant positive, less because of your life but because of the value of your time. At this point you’re extremely busy, you’re traveling, you’re not available, these are traits that will make you incredibly attractive. It won’t be possible to fake these trips/traits.
$500K+: It is practically impossible to blow through this type of money with common sense and everything in the previous tier are truer.
$1M+: If you can make this income at any point in your life you’re set. Your life changes because all of your actions value your time and comfort. You fly business/first class and do not care. You live a life that is impossible to fake.
Given the range and scope of this blog, it is certainly possible to get to $250-500K (before mid 30′s of course). This is achievable for anyone who wants it. When you start pushing up on high 6 figures and 7 figure numbers, you’re going to have to do something special.
Finally, there is no need to bother asking people like us. You can check out James Altucher’s blog, a multi-millionaire, who comes to the same conclusion… money gets girls.
(Caveat: before all the guys who live on shoestring budgets come in, yes you still need some social skills. That is about it though. If you don’t have some sort of social disease you’re going to be perfectly fine if you ever obtain large amounts of money)
7) Can You Hire Me? No
8) Are You Writing a Book? Maybe, not enough page views as of today. Creating a book that will take a long amount of time. It is certainly not worth it for a 5 figure payoff.
9) Industry Overview on XXX Sector? Probably, these are for Wall Street folk and the blog is currently a ~50/50 split it seems. This means it’s likely but no promises.
10) Resume Reviews? Nope! Hate them.
11) Can You Redesign the Blog? 100% agree needs to be re-done, no time-table yet though.
2) I am XX years old What do i Do to break in? We also get this one far too many times here’s the general guideline. Unless you have something spectacular you are holding back, this is the backdrop.
Analyst: If you are 25 years old or younger, keep gunning for an entry level slot as an analyst. This means you pass CFA level 1 if you have absolutely no finance experience to prove you understand the basics and then you get straight to networking. If you’re at a non-target then read our post on how to network/recruit. Now if you are from a no name school, no work experience and low GPA. You have next to no shot and are better off going to get an MBA later in life. This is the truth. As a non-target or older candidate with no experience, you need to have something to bring to the table otherwise you will lose time and time again to 22 year old candidates with banking internships, top GPAs and a great school.
Associate: If you are 26-33 years old this is your second chance to break in. If you have nothing related to finance, probably best to get an MBA.
Vice President and Above: Likely 33+ years old and you’re making a switch from a revenue generating career. In this case you should already know if you’re well qualified. Generally speaking, if you’re in a sales role or run a product line at a firm and are paid $300K+… You’re likely a good fit (this is general as most people who are in this slot know if they have the skills to move to the sell-side or not)
There you have it, it will answer 99% of questions. If you’re young you simply network and spin your resume assuming you have some skills that are transferable. If you’re in your late 20s you’re likely better off with a top MBA.
Is technical analysis a lost “art” with algo trading taking over? Is it even worth learning anymore?
There are still jobs on Wall Street where you can work entirely with technicals, however they are rare positions.
If you are asking about technical investing strategies… We’ll side with Warren Buffet.
How u guys handle jealosy? When u game a female like the one u mentioned . That stops traffic and everyone wants to sleep with her how do u handle that in public? The haters and every one trying to get her number in your face and behind your back. That’s a very uncomfortable position. Any tips on handling those situations especially if she’s your girlfriend?
This is a personal problem.
There should be zero jealousy.
If she is constantly being hit on, take it as a complement
Jealousy is for people who are insecure.
Going to shell out a few questions that have been on my mind and want to get your perspective.
Life Questions:
1. What’s on your bucket list ? (things to do before you die) What do you deem (from your experience are the must dos)
2. About to graduate from college in 3 months working in banking after in graduate. I’m sure you have regrets like everyone else. What are must things to do before graduating from college? (girls, experience etc.)
3. Best places you recommend to live in San Francisco?
4. What are your thoughts on the pick up artist community / ideas?
1) no bucket list. Believe in themes. Themes on this blog are 1) continue to get healthier, 2) become smarter, 3) date better women, 4) make more money, 5) make more friends and 6) obtain more free time.
Need to improve on all of those every year.
2) Biggest regret is being unprepared for the reality of the workforce. That is why this is a free blog on finance, the skills you learn in college are practically useless on Wall Street. The only ones you use are accounting and some finance. In short would have spent more time building people skills instead of analytical skills.
3) if you are an investment banking analyst our suggestion is simply to live either 1) close to work or 2) live in the Marina district (essentially the meatpacking district of SF). You either choose time or you choose better logistics for meeting girls. Up to you.
4) not sure what this question is asking, but will take a stab. Essentially we think the pick up community overemphasizes wasting several nights a week getting drunk approaching hundreds of girls a week. If you have to stop everything and go out to find girls you are doing it wrong. You should live an interesting life where you can meet them at all hours of the day. (Note this is going to be impossible as an analyst but you are building a career at 22 so it is fine for now).
Thanks for the reply.
Love those themes and will definitely focus on those. I agree that college does not prepare you for the real world at all. It’s sad to see how much wasted time and money there is. I’ve always thought that if I didn’t go to college I would be learning on my own and teaching myself all of the stuff that you learn in college. I’ve always felt that being in such an institutionalized and structured place is killing individuals who are motivated to self learn. Although I will say that college has given me some of the best memories of my life so far.
As far as living in SF, I’m leaning towards living close to work – in the Financial District i.e. Nob Hill, Russian Hill, downtown etc. It’ll be more expensive though the closer to downtown you live which is why I asked. I also have heard great things about the Marina (super fratty and hot girls). I think the commute everyday to the FiDi (approx. 30 minutes) would be a huge drain though.
As a last note, I think ultimately I’m going to try and live it up as much as possible these next 3 months and hopefully check back in here when I graduate to see if I lived up to it: get good grades, hook up with as many girls as possible and make amazing memories. I’m realizing that since I’m moving to SF, I probably will not see the majority of these people again so who cares what girls think or these other ppl think. Agree/Disagree?
Absolutely, have a blast before you start work.
One thing we would recommend is… get into peak physical shape.
You’re going to be working long hours so you want to be prepared.
What do u think about investing in binary options from a place called banc de binary? Good idea or bad idea?
Unless you are financially independent. No reason to dabble with options if it is not related to your career.
Covered in the past.
The thing I struggle most about getting better at socialising is that whenever I go to a party or whatever… I’m just stone cold. I’d love to be that guy who lights up a room. I’d love to have real charisma, but if I try to “fake it until I make it” it just feels so awkward and it’s probably very unconvincing. How can I go from stone cold emotionless dude to charismatic player?
This is fairly deep-rooted by the way. I’ve been an intense guy all my life…
There is no other way to improve social skills. Instead of using the term fake it, try to make incremental improvements. Start smaller. Instead of going from cold to lighting up a room, try to go from cold to warm.
You mentioned to continue to get healthier as the number one goal. What do you guys do to continue to get healthier every year that passes by?
Less alcohol, more fruits + vegetables, less stress, 8 hours of sleep, stronger, faster and more endurance.
Those are the best ways to measure improvements. Spend some time finding ways to improve any of those areas so you do not stagnate.
Everyone will get old, but it is best to make the decline as slow as possible.
May as well ask just this… I recently started eating vegetables after stopping for quite a while. Well, in the past few days of eating 500g of veggies every day, I suddenly feel way happier all-round… I feel “uplifted”. Not sure if this is a coincidence or not?
Nice sounds similar to the experience of others. It is not a coincidence as your diet can certainly impact your mood.
Check out fit-juice.com if you want more detailed info on what fruits and veggies are good for [insert] body part/organ.
Thanks, I want to get into juicing, they look delicious. Bookmarked.
what do you think about young guys that are into older women? There’s a big trend going on too of older women into much younger guys. Sometimes I feel that I when I get older I will be phased out because of this trend. I have noticed younger women also going for the even younger guys. What’s your opinion about this?
Re-read your standing out as a non-target posts and was still curious over the comment to being above average, but not a rock star. Couple questions
1) When should one try to become top analyst, if the aim is to start off a little bit below top?
2) Wouldn’t you want to start off from training as the top analyst, to get staffed on better deals from the get-go, which will allow you to prove your abilities/get placed on big deals as well in the future? If the end goal was PE, wouldn’t the first six months have the most impact on your ability to transition, hence the importance of being a rockstar on the get-go?
What are your takes?
1) You should be ranked at the top (top bucket is good enough) by the end of your first year. After the 4-6 month mark is when you really start to push for more work.
2) This is where people go wrong. The first year analyst with zero experience is not going to get any deal from the get go in the first place. So what is the trick? You want to lower expectations. If you go into training as the #2 or 3 guy out of 10… You’re in a much better spot. The #1 guy will get a ton of work and have extremely high expectations. Simply put, if there is an extra deal, the median 2nd year analyst will get the job not the person who has one day of experience (we’re referring to M&A and not equity in this case)…
You on the other hand, were smart. Now you can get a better feel for the group and have more time to strategically position yourself within the right group.
Biggest mistake is coming out of training ranked #1. You want to be in the top ~20-30%, so people know you are “good”, then you can impress them much more easily.
Lower expectations deliver higher than expected results
If you come in with sky high expectations with no experience with the group… It’s going to be tough.
Will the 2nd ranked analyst get placed on the extra deal because the 1st ranked analyst is too busy doing “busy work” initially? What if your analyst class in that group is small (around 4)? Would that change the gameplan?
Generally speaking, do the BBs or EBs bucket within office location or are they on a global front when bucketing? E.g. have an office where majority of guys are top bucket?
Have friends that were getting crushed being on multiple deals on the get-go (can guess which group/firm), and was able to successfully end up at a Megafund in the west coast, and they mentioned trying to get staffed on as many deals as possible from the get-go.
Wouldn’t this idea of being 2nd-3rd ranked analyst risky? What if the first ranked analyst gets staffed on the extra deal instead? Based on your experiences, what have you guys seen?
You can feel free to be the *Star* analyst but in our experience the star analyst has his entire social life ruined.
By being ranked in the top quartile (usually 5-10 analysts depending on the class size) you have 1) no change in job options, 2) decrease in hours, 3) are still staffed on a lot of deals.
The only situation in which you want to be the #1 analyst at all times is within a group that has low deal flow. In that case try to be the best because it will mean deal experience.
Think of it like this.
By simply making it to the top bucket it would be equivalent to an “A-” in high school. The grade is rounded to an “A” on paper and you receive the same bonus and options.
Again the only case you want to be the super star in the group is if there are no deals to go around.
If you’re extremely worried about placement, as it seems you are, then feel free to outshine and go to the top. Just be warned that in most cases, you’re doing more work for the same options and pay as the guy who is ranked “Top Bottom” meaning top quartile but not the #1 person in the class.
Finally, most banks have a global ranking system. Simply make sure the right people in the office like your work and you’ll get to the top assuming there are no performance issues. Naturally, the group with the best and biggest deals will have more say in who gets ranked at the top. Example: MD closes a $10B deal, his group will certainly have one analyst ranked in the top quartile. If you work in a different office and no MD has any deal flow, it will be significantly harder for them to have more than a single analyst in the top quartile.
As you can see from the paragraph above, a lot of the game is politics and positioning, this is again why we suggest being in top 20% out of training so you have time to dissect the office and see who to work for.
An 25 year old male who can pull any good looking older woman or much older woman do you guys consider that guy to have game or just pathetic instead of investing time in pulling in younger women?
We have answered these same questions on March 12. You asked the same question twice.
1) Game is outperformance relative to you.
2) We have no interest in the age and if you like older girls, have a blast
Same concept, game is your ability to pull “out of your league”.
Outlandish question –
Do you think with your level of game – you could compete with a low tier pro sports player (NHL/Unknown MLB/NBA) for girls?
Not sure what you mean by this.
Example: Division 1 star athlete at a college party when they just won the national championships and he was plastered all over TV and everyone is vying for his attention? No.
Example 2: NBA basketball player who makes $250K a year, no one knows him and no one in the room cares or likes sports? Why not, they have no major status. Unless the girl is into sports stars it becomes irrelevant.
The goal is to try to become the best option at all times. Get as fit as possible, as rich as possible etc.
Is it worth it to reach out to recruiters at Investment Banks that are alumni of your school or stick to bankers themselves?
This is assuming you’re already in a financial role, but not in the front office.
Do both, however it is best to aim higher up in the totem pole (usually the VP or better) at the bank.
A recruiter is less likely to take on a higher risk candidate because they have been taught to screen for the cookie cutter resumes.
See you guys mention that life just keeps on getting better. About to graduate and was wondering if you could provide examples of how working in the real world is better than college? Wouldn’t it get tougher to meet women outside college campuses, hang out with the boys whenever, or pretty much be on your own schedule?
Also saw you guys mention some of the writers may have kids and wanted to know what are some reasons FOR having kids?
A few things
1) Life only gets better after college is you made the right decisions in college. You focused on building a useful knowledge base so you have a career or business on track. Most men who spend their time partying and living the life in college hit the wall immediately after graduation (unless they come from a rich family). So the only way life continues to improve after college is if you made the right moves.
2) Having kids is a personal decision. Simply put the most common reason, that we have noticed, for having kids is wanting to pass on all of their knowledge base and watch their children grow up and excel. This is generally how successful people have kids. They only have a couple and give them all of the resources they need to succeed.
“If I made it to XXX without help, imagine what another person could do with resources such as YYY”
You have accomplished what you have always wanted to accomplish and now want to help your son/daughter achieve more. While this is not entirely true the saying “when you have a child your life ends and theirs begins” applies.
There is nothing wrong with having kids if that is truly what you want. Just make sure you’re doing it for unselfish reasons. Do not have kids so they can support you in old age. Do not have kids if you do not have the resources to give them a life worth living and do not have kids if you are unwilling to help them succeed and grow.
Hey WSP,
I apologize in advance for the length of the post. I’m currently a junior at a top 15-20 school, that gets heavily recruited by a lot of banks. However, i am in the accounting department. Even though my grades are terrible, i made a few good connections early on and was able to land a Big 4 internship, they also recruit aggressively at my school. I’m sort of having a change of heart and want to go investment banking route, but can’t think of a way to navigate my way over. I was thinking of taking my accounting job for about 3 years while bartending on the side to save money. While doing that i would study for the CFA Level 1 and then try to interview with that qualification on my resume. What do you think of that path or could you recommend a more straightforward route?
Thanks for the help in advance!
The accounting path has been beaten to death here in multiple emails before we started this Q&A so this will answer everything in a single post
1. How bad are the grades? Try to use some GPA inflation by taking 1-3 courses at a community college and using it as part of the average. No one will mind if you took a few GE courses and include them.
2. If your grades are bad, still try to go into a boutique no-name investment bank. Network and shoot for names that are middle market or below.
3. If that fails and you go to accounting go into transaction services. Now you can attempt to lateral into a small bank in investment banking
4. If that also fails, CFA level 1 will help you obtain interviews in Equity Research/Sales and Trading with some good networking
5. If all of the above fails, you can get your MBA and go in the classic way through a top b-school.
That is the most optimal structure.
Hey thanks for the reply. I really appreciate the advice.
Right now i’m currently sitting at a 2.5. I was considering taking some online classes at large state schools that offer summer classes, but won’t it be a cause for concern when your transcript shows a different grade than your resume?
2. I’ll heed your advice and get started on looking at my career advice website.
This was answered above. If you take a few classes (think 10-13 units) at a different school and simply average in the score, no one will mind or care as it was such a small amount of units. In addition, it would not display a different grade because you have stated you took 2-3 courses at a different college.
Can you please give any natural or herbal recommendations for getting rid pinched nerves on the neck?
Do not know, in your shoes would search for health related blogs/websites for the answer to that question.
What’s the best way of breaking out of a seemingly unbreakable habit? I tend to wake up and eat the same thing every day. It’s not unhealthy food as such, but I want to try to optimise my diet and eat slightly better choices. However, whenever I eat something else, I miss what I’m used to having every day and can’t help myself. Any quick techniques that can help support will-power?
This one is pretty simple. The truth is that you don’t really want to break the habit. That might sound harsh but it is true.
The best way to fix your diet is simply to stop buying bad food. If it is not around, it will be impossible for you to consume it.
Go to the grocery store on a full stomach and don’t buy it anymore.
I live in NYC and I have an bba in computer information systems. I can’t get an entry level job in my career. It is a very lucrative and highly paid career but I can’t find entry level work. Currently I have a union job that pays 45 grand but in nyc that’s not enough. Any suggestions?
This is another one we have no experience with and we suggest you search for computer information systems blogs/websites.
How do you alleviate eye strain from staring at a computer all day? What about migraines caused by tensions, stress, and fatigue (again from staring at a computer)?
This is a good one. The human body is tough to manage.
1. Try if possible to switch to tea instead of coffee and red bulls. Too much caffiene strains the tear ducts. Also buy eye drops.
2. Get a screen protector with light shading. This will be less tiring on your eyes.
3. Migraines can be a vitamin deficiency issue, use your meal allowance for organic dinners instead of the typical sushi/near by “low end ” steak/burger joint
4. Vitamin D. Your body does not have enough and this can cause problems, take capsules daily. (No sunlight so take them)
5. Stress is best mitigated by shutting off your brain and thinking of literally nothing. When you feel your mind scrambling/racing, stop everything walk outside the building and walk 1-2 laps. During this process think of literally nothing related to work. In addition, sometimes you will feel in the zone, let this feeling ride until you no longer feel on. Ie: take advantage of the efficiency.
Try all this and you should see significant improvements.
Sure is harder than you thought ain’t it 😉
Hey just want to know your thoughts on acn as a second income for a bartender slash student my friend recently pitched me the idea of becoming acn ibo but my instincts are telling me its pryamid-esque but then again the experience acquired and the potential side for a decent income if effort is put forth is enticing. what are your thoughts on acn?
Do not have any experience with acn so cannot comment.
(Side note: We have edited your name, there is no need to leave an email address to drop a comment simply write a name a post away)
You guys recommend fish oil as a recommended supplement to take on a daily basis. Any special reasons?
Improves skin and brain functioning.
We don’t take many supplements at all:
1) 5 caps + of fish oil a day
2) Vitamin D if there is limited sunlight due to long hours
3) Consistent consumption of fruits and vegetables
4) protein shakes after workouts
That’s basically all there is. For health advice we have recommended fit-juice.com for additional info. The four above are the only things we do… don’t have time to list hundreds of things to do on a daily basis.
Stick to the basics 1) omega 3’s = fishoil, 2) fruits + vegetables in raw or juice form for natural vitamins, 3) Vitamin D at your desk if you need to work 70+ hours in a week with limited sunlight, 4) protein for muscle recovery.
Keep it simple.
I took fish oil regularly but talked to my doctor and did some research online and say that fish oil is linked to prostate cancer. (link provided). What are your thoughts?
I also juice, take vitamin D and use whey protein.
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/podcast/transcript090313.html
Sure there is a study for everything these days. Go with what your body responds to.
If you miss a few days here and there don’t sweat. It’ll also make it less likely you “over use” and become part of these studies.
Guessing the fish oil is related to poor quality, ie: mercury issues etc.
If you’re going to worry about it then certainly don’t take them. Stress is significantly worse than a couple tabs of fish oil.
I recently landed a job as an Investment Analyst for a mid size bond fund. Do you have any recommendations on books on how to understand how the traders trade bonds ie. price them accurately, looking for opportunities at the different parts of the credit curve, spreads against US 10 year etc. Also, what has Bill Gross done differently than the other bond portfolio managers that has made him so successful? Furthermore, what are some exit opportunities after you progress as a bond trader/portfolio manager?
Thanks!
This question is a bit ambiguous because it is hard to tell what role you landed within bonds.
1) if you mean investment banking in DCM, then that would be relatively straight forward with a 2-3% fee on the raise of the debt
2) If you mean you landed a position as a trader, then we strongly suggest ignoring Bill Gross entirely and focusing on people within your firm. No matter how many books you read on a successful trader the real value is learning to think like the best person around you. IE: get away from books and start connecting to the best trader in your office. Going to the source will pay significantly more dividends for you.
3) Mixed with 1 and 2, DCM is practically ECM on the banking side. Your best bet is upward mobility up the pyramid. If you’re a trader then yes that could open a few options either again up the pyramid or you could possibly move to be a Bond portfolio manager. If you’re trying to go down the PM route that is an extremely lucrative, yet competitive field and we would stress point number 2 again that your livelihood will be determined by your connection to the top guys in your field. Using your Bill Gross example, the best way to secure a long-term career would be a vouch from the top bond guy you know. If he likes your work and you think alike… Chances are the pot of money managed will increase and you’ll end up getting richer with him.
Finally, we do not have any resources/books to recommend on his Bill Gross’s strategy but if you do a quick search on amazon/google a few should pop up. But again, we recommend looking closer to your own network. It makes much more sense to try and latch on to the best guy you personally know than to introduce a new mindset to a bond trader who is already good.
I have two unrelated questions:
1.) What do you do with your 401k account when changing jobs. Do you leave it where it’s at, can you consolidate it with your new 401k, or what?
2.) Face with two job opportunities. An analyst position for a fund of funds geared towards reporting and client relations in NYC. The other job is an analyst position with a hedge fund (~50 mil AUM), but it’s in a less than stellar city down south. Something similar to Memphis. How would you evaluate these two positions. I feel like the hedge fund position is obviously the better experience, but I’m not sure how to factor in the location aspect when making the final decision. Thoughts/advice?
1. Roll it over to a low cost manager; most common recommended one is vanguard.
2. Take the hedge fund job, it sounds like the fund of funds role is back office. Note, $50M AUM is absolutely tiny, so you should search for larger roles after the one year mark. Unless your fund size grows past 100-200M
What do you guys do to get smarter ? U guys mentioned that that’s one of your goals every year so what do u guys do?
You asked an extremely similar question on March 24… The answer is the same 1) read difficult books, 2) maintain a healthy diet, 3) exercise and 4) learn a new hobby/skill
You said something along the lines of… ‘if you need an external motivator, you don’t want/need it enough’. I agree, but all successful people have dreams and visions and enjoy seeing stimulating pictures and videos etc. once in a while. For example, Mark Cuban used to drive round big houses for motivation when he was younger. Thoughts?
There is a difference between motivating yourself and searching for a spark or someone else to motivate you.
Example: You hang a picture up on your wall of a car you want to own. That is self motivation where you’re reminding yourself of what you have always wanted.
Example of bad motivation: You run around asking people for motivation, for help and for inspiration.
The first example is creating internal drive. The second is looking for external drive.
The second will always lose to the first.
Thanks for the clarification.
Few questions on San Francisco living if you guys have knowledge or advice on it:
1. What would you guys consider a reasonable monthly rent range for SF living?
I’m going to be an investment banking analyst.. 70k + bonus. Want to live somewhere close to the Financial District, Nob Hill, Russian Hill or even the Marina The places I’m looking for have ranges from as low as $1300 (seems like a small box though) – north of $2000.
– I read your posts on being frugal but if you were in my position what kind of place would you choose?
2. Would you guys say that SF living is more expensive than NY now?
3. Do you guys think the housing market will eventually stabilize and prices will come down?
4. Any recommendations for sites to use to find a place to live? I’m moving down in July and still haven’t found a place yet. Should I be worried?
We covered this for NYC and SF in the past and above you as well.
“If you are an investment banking analyst our suggestion is simply to live either 1) close to work or 2) live in the Marina district (essentially the meatpacking district of SF). You either choose time or you choose better logistics for meeting girls. Up to you.”
1. For an analyst keep it as low as possible shoot for $1,500 or less
2. It seems to be about the same based on simple searches… but we’re not longer as familiar with the roomate market at this point. Your price ranges seem to be reasonable for both cities
3. Do not know as housing is tied to the economy as well, overall always best to search for rent control if possible
4. You can search up until the last second, if you do not have a place by the end of may then you should begin searching aggressively. In terms of recommended sites we have heard craigslist is good but ideally you already have a few friends who will be working in the same city so you can have a good roomate situation set up.
Hope that helps, it should all work out. You have a couple of months left to search and remember that your first two years are always the worst so take that into consideration when you decide on your location. There is no need for your own place your first year out of college.
What do you guys think about roth iras vs iras as regular investments for retirement? What are your thoughts about pensions??
Roth IRA – max it out if you are under the threshold to contribute
IRA = essentially a 401K, so max your 401K and then roll it over to an IRA at vanguard or another cheap low cost fund when you switch jobs. If you don’t have the optionality for a 401K do a Roth first, once that is dead simply save it yourself. Generally, most firms give you a 401K when you start your job, always go to the match at minimum (already covered in a blog post)
No thoughts on pensions as we have no chance of obtaining one working on the street. If you have access to it, 99/100 you should take full advantage of it.
Why is it that the vast majority of true entrepreneurs I have heard of don’t have an MBA, whereas private equity partners insist on getting one? I mean, why do they see so much value in getting an MBA? Why is getting an MBA often an essential part of a person’s private equity career? Look at most of the top people in private equity and most will have an MBA. Why?!
This is an easy one. The main reason is the filtering process. To obtain a job in Private Equity you need to have two things 1) a vast network and 2) high credentials.
If you want to move up in Private Equity you need to fund raise.
With that said it is not “essential” but rather common because again, you need the relationships to be able to buy companies and exit them either through an IPO or sale. It is going to be next to impossible to run a PE firm without a rollodex of relationships, a lot of these are formed at top tier MBA programs (emphasis on top tier).
It seems like you either have a misunderstanding of the space or believe it is more entrepreneurial than it actually is. Hope that helps, but you’ve got it right. For PE you basically need a rollodex so that is exactly why most of them have MBAs. No relationships = no sales/exit strategy/no fund raising.
I see, thanks. I think I’d much rather build my own company to be honest. Private equity is fantastically interesting to me, but perhaps not entrepreneurial enough for my liking…
If you already have the contacts to start up a PE fund (ie ability to raise several million) then you could certainly start a small scale PE firm.
You can also look into real estate Private Equity firms (flipping property). Since the cash required is lower.
Thanks. I also like the holding company model… as soon as you have a grubstake, you can start making leveraged acquisitions on a smaller scale (without necessarily having contacts). Plus you don’t have LPs, compliance, etc. See Graeme Hart, Ron Perelman, both Alec and Tom Gores in their early days, Ron Burkle’s early career, etc.
But I will admit that this whole line of business, PE or not, does take a huge amount of sacrifice. Still, I’m prepared to do that. And the guys listed above, particularly the Gores brothers and Hart, seem to be much more operationally-focused and entrepreneurial than the bigger firms that were built on financial engineering.
what do you guys think about financial advisers? is it a good idea to get one when you have a huge sum of money available liquid or not?
We would personally never use them.
Once you reach a certain net worth, people begin soliciting you with ideas on how to tax shield your investments, set up trusts etc. Since we work in finance we already have the knowledge to go through the weeds and see if an investment makes sense. No use in paying out a 1% fee.
If you don’t have the knowledge, then feel free to use one.
Hi WSPB,
Could you build a quick spreadsheet to see the pros of renting for an indefinite period of time versus buying? I guess you would factor in the interest expense and the opportunity cost of not having invested the money you would have had if you weren’t locked up in a 15+ year mortgage.
Besides flexibility/mobility, what are the other advantages of renting vs. buying?
Also, lets say you had enough cash to buy a home with that cash, would you buy it outright or keep renting?
Thank you.
We do not build models/spread sheets on request.
However, with renting and buying we are still anti-buying unless you are 100% certain you will be living in that city for the long-term. In that case it may be beneficial to buy since the money saved on rent would off set the upkeep on the home/apartment.
Finally, the only reason we would recommend buying an apartment/home would be for a renovation (assuming you don’t want to live there long term). If you have the skills to fix the property yourself then the hassle becomes minimal and you can turn a profit. Generally, most people lack these skills so we avoid diving into the financial metrics there.
Can I build IB skills without going into IB? The obvious downfall would be the lack of experience, but if I wanted to carry advanced financial modeling skills, would it be possible to reach the same level as a second year plus analyst/associate just working on those skills in my own time (through books, real-life examples on the net, etc)?
Unfortunately no.
Unless you mean working in another front office role (PE, HF – to a lesser extent S&T and Research).
Wall Street and employers in general are risk averse. Why would they hire you when they have many other candidates with real life IBD experience? Books and the net are not going to be taken seriously because anyone can simply type on their resume “learned financial modeling”. You will receive no credit for it.
This is why we strongly recommend that people get work experience as early as possible.
OK, you did relate your answer to employability though. I’m really just asking about building those skills for own good, not necessarily to make yourself more appealing in the eyes of an employer.
On another note, if I do need a real-life job in the industry to build the skills, how can I get work experience when I live nowhere near the city or anywhere close to people who work in banking? I am under 21 years old, so I haven’t missed the bus so to speak, but I’m certainly not well-positioned geographically-speaking.
I’m thinking about entrepreneurship however health insurance is expensive. What type of health insurance do you guys have and what do you recommend? Thanks..
Healthcare is covered by your firm. We are not aware of health care outside of the work environment at this time.
What are your thoughts on obtaining a degree in computer science and a minor in finance, how would it be viewed by an employer in the finance industry? To give context, it would take a year more of school therefore, another year of debt with little income. Also, how are research positions outside of finance viewed when applying to a finance internship?
The answer is generally the same.
1) Engineering is great to show you are smart however it is a near necessity to take all the regular finance courses so a minor should get you there.
2) It is not seen as a huge benefit, meaning that a finance degree + finance internship will trump the experience you outlined above
3) a research job that is not related to finance will not be seen as a positive or a negative when applying as it is not related to the position
In your shoes, if you’re trying to get into Wall Street you should take your current academics which seem solid and apply immediately to finance internships. Without actual finance internships your extra year of college will likely be wasted. The reason why? The bank will not be interested in hiring you because they will have a pool of candidates with finance internships in the same field to choose from.
Hope that makes sense. If your engineering degree + finance minor is above a 3.5+GPA. Then you should spend all of your time networking to find finance internships. If you can obtain one, as close as possible to front office, you’re going to get a lot of interviews. If you choose to go into an unrelated internship such as research for a school, you’re decreasing your chances significantly (not impossible but again a significant and meaningful decrease).
Re your tweet: “Practically no one keeps a daily personal journal. Huge hint to start one. How else can you track your mental progress? 1 page a day minimum”
This is something I’ve really wanted to start. At the moment I just write tons of post-it notes that I eventually throw away. Any advice on how to keep it neat and actually useful? I want it for the purposes of being able to see how I’m progressing and to hold myself accountable to goals.
Oops, just saw your last response. Really looking forward to this one.
If you have dinner with important contacts and everyone has a drink (just wine), but you prefer not to drink, do you think it’s bad to decline it or should you drink it whatever you think about alcohol in this situation?
You don’t need to drink. Most people simply use alcohol as a social lubricant.
The workforce is not a fraternity. If you’re doing your job correctly and have good social skills it won’t make a big difference.
That said, there is no need to run around explaining that you don’t drink to everyone.
Yes that’s the only thing, the “why”, as I wouldn’t want people to think I’m somehow “above” them for declining. I guess I could use self-deprecating humor to laugh my decision off if it ever came up in conversation. My dad said people think you’re a bit of a “wuss” if you decline a drink in a restaurant… I disagreed but wanted your opinion.
what’s the best way to initiate a conversation with a 10 walking down the street in Manhattan?
Use the exact same lines you would use on a 7. We will have line for line type comments in a product in the future, but not in the ask us anything section.
Like a line for lines that you guys use on woman? Looking forward to it if so!
What’s your views on the popular conspiracy theories that banking system is controlled by rotschild’s and how the Fed’s chairman has been jewish for the last 35years
Do not have an interest in conspiracy theories, so no comments on it. We are also not aware of the issue you’re bringing up. Control what you can control.
If this is another doomsday sort of conspiracy, just remember this:
“If the person is living a great life why would he want to see everything crumble”
This is probably very subjective but –
How can one type of person feel so good as they take action and continue to get better – but almost feel depressed when they lose momentum for too long (two nights out isn’t losing momentum, more like 3-4 days).
On the flip side how can some people seem to feel good watching netflix all day and doing pretty much nothing?
Different expectations in life?
Ha very subjective!
1. Generally if you lose momentum and feel bad it is because you have raised expectations rapidly over a short period. This is normal as improvement is not linear. Similar to sports you have your ups and downs but over time you want to improve through the “periodization” cycle in your respective sport. Game is no different. Sometimes you’ll be dead on perfect and things are going great and other times you’ll fall flat on your face for a few weeks out of no where. Expect it and learn to enjoy the process.
2. Do not know how people can feel good watching netflix all day. This is not something that we can relate to. In our view, a man feels best when he puts hours, days, weeks, months, years of hard work and tears into achieving X and finally does.
3. Yes believe you are right, different expectations. Again we do not know how people can be happy living their life in front of a TV so we are not the best people to ask.
what do you think cost men the most money in the long run? love or ego?
Ego.
Love can turn into a business if you are in an industry you enjoy or create a business you love.
As a follow up, we would say the biggest cost to men is actually lack of confidence
Lack of confidence creates hordes of issues.
1) fear which spawns worry which spawns hate. IE: angry people you meet on a day to day basis.
2) It decreases your risk tolerance
3) it lowers your personal energy level, anyone who has just accomplished a major task will feel a burst of energy (Eg: recall the last time you achieved a major goal)
4) creates a need for reassurance when you should be self assured. This is most clearly shown by people who are quickly angered and need constant positive affirmations (unable to take criticism)
All of these issues seem to arise from weak confidence levels. Once you have momentum and your life is in order, it is much tougher to shake that person because he knows he has the skills and abilities to come back. Therefore… He is never in that position in the first place.
you are the wisest men since Aristotle and Socrates. Thanks for all you do.
Ha! Not a chance but thank you for the complement.
What would you advise people who don’t know what to study? I’m thinking management information systems (business) with computer science minor or changing to finance. My school is far from target – Ole Miss, so I was thinking getting an engineering degree would be better for getting a well-paid job.
Why would you work in the financial rather than IT?
We did a basic calculation on how to choose a college major. Simply make sure your debt load never exceeds more than a year of post tax pay.
We do not have experience with IT or Ole Miss. In your shoes, we would go directly to the career center and find the best way to position yourself for a scalable career.
I’m on a tuition scholarship, so I pay only room/board. Income is limited as job opportunities are scarce for international student (only on campus employment 20h/week) .
Ole Miss is known for being party school, not academically strong in any department in particular, so maybe IT is better way as there is more demand for it(?)
Unfortunately we have no working knowledge of IT careers. In your shoes, again, we would go to the career center and find the best way to 1) obtain niche knowledge and 2) be paid well immediately after graduation.
We cannot comment as we have no experience in the field. Best of luck!
First @hmm from above. Get the BS in CS degree, worth your weight in gold if you are seeking an IT career. IF you are so inclined to “parlay” that into finance, do some due diligence into the OMS CS from Georgia tech (online masters, top 10 program), costs under 7k and is designed around a work schedule.
Furthermore out of all new STEM careers that will be created in the next decade… 70% will come from Computer Science. If that isn’t compelling, look at total number of jobs, avg starting salary and number of graduates per year (very small).
My two cents.
Hello!
What are some not so obvious signs of jealousy by people around you?
Expressing hatred, denial or giving credit to things you gave no effort to (i.e. rich parents) are the ones that masquerade as hate but deep down are driven by jealous feelings.
Your thoughts?
Not sure what the situation is, but if you want to see if someone is secretly jealous/hateful you can flesh them out by giving them some non-incriminating information about yourself that can be embarrassing.
Let it sit around for a while and then you’ll know what type of person they are without the headache of accidentally trusting the person from hello.
I’m always modest and make out that the person on the other side is better than me, even if I know they’re not, just for political reasons I suppose… is modesty a good or bad quality?
As always it depends. There is a difference between 1) bragging and 2) letting people step on you. Generally modesty is great at the start of interactions, be humble and modest and get a feel for what type of person you are speaking to. Do not let someone take credit for your actions unless doing so is going to benefit you even more.
As an example a smart move would be to take blame for something that would have looked bad on an extremely senior person (he will give you a better review). A bad move would be telling everyone you are “amazing at X” because if you actually are amazing at X other people would be spreading the word about you.
Now that I have reached my daily limit for giving unsolicited advice…
Currently I am at a crossroads, I am enlisting in the Naval Nuclear Field and intend to apply to Indiana University Bloomington once I finish my enlistment and use the GI Bill to finance most of my education and pursue an MBA at one of my target schools: Emory, UCBerkeley or Stanford since I can use the rest of my GI Bill to leave debt free. Though Stanford would require some debt… but its Stanford.
That being said, my background is currently trading index futures and energy futures for income. I didn’t just start one day, this was after years of studying/mentoring and last year I netted just north of a 210% return. My dad taught me how to trade options (mostly selling them), and most of my family are aggressive market participants with very long track records. HOWEVER, I am untested in a bear market, we are overdue and the short version is, rising interest rates cometh and so will the next bear.
In addition, day-trading for a living is not what it is cracked up to being, freedom is a big benefit however if you ever want a home loan… forgettaboutit, even a car loan needs a co-signer which isn’t how I want to live my life.
I have a strong academic background and an SAT of 2275. I think I’ll be able to get 730 or higher on the GMAT, my brother got just under 780.
Would the military experience + trading experience + internships and that academic background be a good path onto wall street investment banking or hedge funds? I would be roughly 32 years old once I finish all of that. Would I face age discrimination? Is it worth pursuing or should I simply pursue an officer career path?
I would appreciate you weighing in on my situation.
In addition, I would continue to trade on longer time frames while in the navy and throughout my schooling.
This is a tough one… Would say this, unless you get into a TOP school like Stanford it may not be worth your time since you have no job experience, all personal learning does not count for anything in an interview/resume screen.
Tough one to call though, when you get your options ask us again… also triple checking here… You have zero finance work experience correct?
Registered Commodity Pool Operator. But no, I’ve never worked for a bank or hedge fund.
Thank you for your response, your initial reaction is very telling and I will pursue the route of nuclear officer within the Navy. The compensation is really only matched in IB or if I went to Columbia Law.
This is a great site and resource, thank you again for taking the time to respond.
I’m meeting someone soon from a BB IB. He has worked there for many years. I’m 19/20 with no work experience. Any tips on what to ask and so on? I know what I’m interested in, in general terms, but just wondering how I should steer the conversation and not seem like I just want an opportunity from him.
Well if you did not approach him as a party friend or something similar to that 99/100 he knows why you contacted him… For help… To land a job.
With that said, simply steer the conversation to your selling point such as “target school, x major, interested in xxx because of xxx, xxx, xxx ”
Unfortunate that you don’t have anything on your résumé to prove interest, ideally you have at least a few items, and bring those up as well.
Good luck!
Again, everyone already knows you’re angling for a job if you approached him in a professional manner.
If I’m an entrepreneur at heart and want to go build my own company, but still want IB skills, what’s the easiest way to get these skills? Should I just cold call every boutique bank?
To clarify what you mean, are you looking to break into a boutique IB or simply learn the modeling skills?
Well, similar to the question above that starts with “Can I build IB skills without going into IB?” I read your answer and assumed the only way to build modeling skills would be through a real IB job. So with that, I’m now asking what the easiest way to get into IB would be; boutique banks then came to mind. Hope that makes sense.
Sure, then you would follow all of the advice on the blog and simply shoot for the small regional investment banks. Investment banking recruiting is the same across small to large banks (generally) and getting into a smaller bank is significantly less competitive (generally).
(Note we are not including the E-boutiques in this comment of course!)
Hi. What do you think about Duff & Phelps and related firms? These aren’t necessarily IB firms, or they at least don’t have huge IB divisions… however, they work in restructuring, distressed M&A, ordinary valuation work, etc.
I’m most interested in debt-related situations, but also want to build the financial modeling skills and so on… does this sound like a good solution i.e. go to one of these “not-strictly-IB” boutique firms?
Thanks.
First, thanks for this blog and all the advice so far. Amazing to see how far the blog has come and how many people it has helped (myself included).
I am wondering if you have any sleep hacking tips or advice:
The goal for me is to get as much sleep as needed but want to make sure I get QUALITY sleep (deep REM)
1. What are your thoughts on taking melatonin for deeper sleep? I take herbatonin infrequently and sometimes it works sometimes it doesn’t
2. Lifestyle tips for better sleeping? like not drinking, going to sleep at a certain time, exercise?
3. General advice on how to get the best quality / deep REM sleep? I want to feel energized everyday and not feel tired during the day.
Overall the best way to get quality sleep is 1) consistency and 2) avoiding computers.
If you want to improve your sleep, try to remain hydrated through the day, then set up an exact time where you will go to bed consistently for at least 3 weeks. At this point your body will catch onto the habit. Avoid easy distractions such as text messages, email checking and late night television (throw it away).
1. Don’t recommend any supplements but will say sun exposure is good if you’re an office type person
2. General advice above in this post
3. Similar to number 2, diet + consistent sleep will yield better results than relying on alternative chemicals.
you say (rightly so) to avoid mainstream news. do you read any news?
Rare items.
1) keep up with a few sports (5-15 minutes a week max, enjoy watching playoffs)
2) Know major events (Ukraine/Russia issue etc.)
3) Factual items that are required by law are more legitimate (Press releases, conference calls) but don’t believe this is main stream since most never read the SEC
Other than that sticking with books is better.
I’m surprised it’s only 5-15 mins a week for keeping up with sports, thought that’d be one of the most popular topics in the office so it’d merit more attention. What do you guys talk about then instead when it comes to non-work topics. Cars? Workouts? Women?
Sure there are a million other things to chat about. Depends on the environment.
Work can include 1) personal trading account moves, 2) cars/gym/women as you mentioned, 3) new travel destinations, 4) recent books you’ve read and 5) regular Street topics such as layoffs, bonuses, who is doing better/worse etc.
Spending more than a 15 minutes to keep up is overboard.
What do u guys think about commodities such as gold, silver, etc as investments. Good idea or bad idea.? What about putting your money away high savings account or money market account?
Owning some commodities is perfectly fine for a diversified portfolio. However, don’t become a “gold bug” and put all your eggs in one basket.
We answered the second question several times already. Only a small portion for emergencies.
WSP, can you help me pick the 3 best/most useful courses out of those electives:
FIN 341 – Risk and Insurance
FIN 355 – Real Estate Finance and Mortgage Banking
FIN 431 – Financial Decision Making
FIN 533 – Securities Analysis and Portfolio Mgt
FIN 534 – Managing Financial Institutions
FIN 581 – Futures, Options, and Swaps
Econ 398 – Intermediate Microeconomics
Econ 399 – Intermediate Macroeconomics
Accy 303 – Financial Accounting I
Accy 304 – Financial Accounting II
Ha this is hard on a glance but looks like.
1. Financial Accounting
2. Securities analysis and portfolio management
3. Tie between Futures, real estate and financial accounting 2
But of the list is looks like the first two mentioned are most important.
Which appeals more to recruiters: Banking & Finance or Managerial Finance? Difference is only a few courses
Choose the one with that has more investment banks associated with it. IE: go through the alumni list and find which major places more into banks.
If you can’t do that, then simply choose the one that has more emphasis on finance/accounting.
In this case it sounds like “Banking & Finance”
have to choose my desk rotations for my summer internship. was just wondering if ‘corporate broking’ analysts were recruited by PE/HFs
Unclear as to what your role is, however if you are in the front office (ie: working with institutional clients) your skills would be much more likely suited for a HF than PE. In fact you would have next to zero shot at PE since the skills are not related, but a HF is a maybe.
Again tough to tell based on what you will be doing.
If you’re building relationships with institutional clients then you’re in a good role to begin networking for buy-side market related positions.
Do you have a guide for between approaching a girl —– and closing?
This is a weak part for me which I think mostly means lack of escalation.
For example if someone can pull easier from a bar or club at night easier than a first date after getting a number, what would you recommend they improve on?
If you are better in a bar or a club and are not good on dates the answer is clear.
1. Day game and
2. General conversation topics
If you are doing worse when you have more time to interact with her privately it means there is limited material/substance when you’re on a date. So begin branching out, obtain more topics to talk about and work on your conversational skills.
What happens if you get ill in investment banking, given the hours? What if you feel so shit it affects your ability to stay productive, given that time doesn’t stop for anyone?
Well for banking as an entry level the truth is most people tough it out and work anyway unless you are ill to the point of being in a hospital or unable to function.
Generally people will work through a cold or the flu, some will end up using remote access and working from home as well.
Overall, sick days are pretty much not taken.