General Wall Street Information
How Do You Build a Three Statement Model? Here you go and feel free to email us for the excel file. 3 statement model
Do You Have a Resume Template?
Yes we do from the above link, notably no resume is perfect stick with 1 page and these sections. 1) Name Address, 2) Work Experience, 3) School, 4) Interests/Skills. In addition be sure to read the guidelines on fixing your resume here.
How do I break into Venture Capital?
Similar to the Sell Side and Buyside there are clear and concrete ways to break in. For Venture Capital, depending on your background you must search out and find the right story to preach, which should involve five pieces. 1) Work Ethic, 2) Appetite for Risk, 3) Innovation, 4) Salesmanship and 5) Sector Knowledge. If you can get 3/5 on this five point checklist and you have an obsessive work ethic it is achievable.
Where Should I Search for a Job (Post College)?
As expected the short answer is Networking and being head hunted. It is always best to be sitting on the other side of the table with someone who already has a positive view of you. Any hiring manager will choose a candidate with a positive recommendation from a source he trusts over an obscure resume because that is simple human nature. Now if the world seems to be ending at your firm and you’re relatively new you may be forced to go through resume drops. In that case you’ll load up your profile on OneWire, buy up a Doostang account and then search through Indeed. In that order.
Should I take an Excel Modeling Course?
The big problem here is each firm has their own templates, Models, Power Point macros, Excel macros, Word macros etc. Understandably, you’re trying to get an edge so the bigger question again comes down to the same, what is your experience and what transferable skills do you have. It’s hard to understand sometimes for young guys but Advanced accounting would be 100x more helpful on your resume than “Chemical engineering creating the next universe”. Even though chemical engineering is likely harder, we don’t care because it’s not going to show us you know anything about finance and it also is not directly applicable to the job. Assuming you obtain a job in Wall Street your best investment would be an excel short cut course or simply taking level 1 of the CFA to solidify the basics of finance.
Should I get a Masters Degree?
This one is tougher as it will depend on your job experience and which field you wish to enter. For better or worse the Street is a prestige obsessed field so it is best to immediately check into the career center website to see if people are placed into the field you wish to break into. Assume that the top 25 schools in the USA are likely safe, double check to be certain. At the end of the day if you are already on the Street, the answer is no, however if you are looking at breaking in it is best to make sure you get a “double bump” increase in prestige and focus on finance which likely opens the door to the interview room. Your story will be tighter as you can pitch yourself as “learning that you are actually interested in finance and not xyz field” and second proving that you’re continuing to get better (eg. better school/prestige).
The short answer here is this.
CFA:
Yes to the first level of the CFA if you do not have a job on the Street yet. No if you’re already on the Street.
MBA:
Yes if you have an industry background (Tech/Healthcare/Consumer Corp Dev) and want to break in. No if you are already on the Street, unless it is paid for by the company, then you have nothing to lose.
Buy Sell Hold Ratings, What Do They mean?
Simply put, Wall Street is relationship driven. If you boil it down, a buy rating is a “strong relationship” a hold is more “negative than positive” and a Sell is run like hell.
What Type of Personalities to People on Wall Street Have?
Overall with a gun to my head there would be two people on the Street. Extreme type A where a single error would make you have a heart attack and type B where you work the system by being the well liked guy in the office who doesn’t make any big mistakes. Feel free to take a stab at the type of people running this site.
The simple answer to this is below for the sell-side:
Investment Banking: 1) Private equity, 2) Corporate Development, 3) Hedge Funds
Research: 1) Hedge Funds/Mutual Funds, 2) Investor Relations, 3) Corporate Development
Sales and Trading: 1) Mutual Funds/Other S&T, 2) Move within sell-side (generally mroe on the macro research side), 3) break into the buy side
For now the link above is for research and we’ll dive into banking and S&T later as well.
How Do You Survive Wall Street Long-term?
The trick to surviving Wall Street long-term is simple, become Type B. While a lot of people can make it as a Type A, we will be the first people to say Health > Wealth. With that said take a glance at how to be “political at work” and you’ll have a long tenure on the Street. We promise.
How to Tell if a Person Walked or was Let Go?
Notably, this could be in the interview section and it should, however the quick answer is this. “How long did he survive”. If he can’t even handle 2 years as an analyst, that’s a red flag for being a complainer. If the person lasted 5+ years and has a good track record, we’ll give them the benefit of the doubt. Note, a two year stint is next to mandatory to “earn your stripes”
What Advice do you have for a Newbie?
Young-bucks. Simply put… Don’t follow the herd! If everyone else is buying bottles and getting apartments they can barely afford don’t follow their lead. Instead remember to make friends, save some extra cash and avoid hanging out with multitudes of keyboard jockeys… Like yourself. A simple rule, a third a third a third (1/3 living, 1/3 fun/leisure/experiences, 1/3 save). That bonus check may goose egg you one day, it happens to the best of us.
How Do You Survive Work Drunk?
If this question has come up… congratulations you’re on your way to being a Type B. That holiday party gave you one too many champagnes or ciroc vodka shots. Congrats. You’re routine is linked above the best answer is caffiene, vitamin B12 and holding your composure. God Speed.
How Do I Choose the Correct Bank?
All banks suck. Kidding… sort of. While the buyside is always better (Hedge funds for life) unless you are connected you typically start on the sell side. The quick answer is social scanning. Analyze how healthy they are and be sure to run like Forrest Gump if you hear “Work Hard Play Hard” culture.
Which Part of the Sell Side Should I Work In?
Didn’t you read the above? Get to a fund. Half-joking, the basics are as follows:
The Banker: Very intense and can grind our 80 hr weeks
Sales Trader: Can sell “Salt to a Slug”
Research: In-between the Banker and Sales Trader a niche play
How Do I Prepare for My New Job?
Glad to see the new generation is not entirely lazy. The answer is quite simple 1) Relax, 2) Study the basics. Much like any job the first question is always character and trust. If you can’t make simple changes to a document or organize an email by seniority you’re quickly looking at a call to the “conference room” eg. getting fired. The best course of action is actually two items. 1) take a real excel course, 2) practice filling up an income statment by copying and pasting. If you think you can type financial statements faster than copying and pasting please come back to us when your MD reams you out for having a document in “Millions” when you forgot to remove the comma and it was really “Billions”. Control H is your friend.
What Happens During Earnings Season?
“During earnings season there are roughly 30 minutes to update the model, send a quick preview of the important takeaways and see if the company met expectations. Expectation are key. While Revenue and EPS numbers may be important, each sector has a ‘driver’ perhaps it is a gross margin line due to competitive pricing pressures or unit sale numbers. At the end of the day, buyside expectations are everything, if we want to see 10% increase in revenue and the company prints 8%, the stock trades lower and Street likely decreases estimates as well.”
For the buyside you’d say we take a lower position if for example you’re at a hedge fund, slang such as “a third exposure” would be a good way to show you know the buzz words as well.
Hey it looks like you guys know what you’re talking about… I have an interview with Stiefel In investment banking do you have any good answers for why them? Thanks!!
I notice you mention the CFA and MBA. My question is, is there any value to a Masters in Finance? I notice that the programs for MS Finance are about half the cost of the MBA program, and generally completed in one year rather than two. My long term goals in finance are to break into venture capital, but I am 24 without any financial experience to speak of at this point. What would you recommend for getting a foot in the door?
Solid blog, guys, really informative stuff. I’m glad you posted interview tips on here, but I’m also wondering if you have any suggestions for resume and cover letter writing. I just transferred to a big target school in the fall where I’m trying to play catch up to everyone who’s already been in the program for two years. I’m in the process of searching and applying to internships in the summer. Do you guys have any thoughts about internships in particular?
We partially covered this in our College post. The next one will be resume tips followed by a sample resume.
To answer your internship question always get a job as close as possible to what you want to do.
No-name investment banking analyst is better than “Bulge Bracket… Back office”.
Have a pretty specific question. I’m looking at a Master’s program for Quantitative Finance at Rutgers Business School in Newark. I reviewed the course outline for the program and it falls into exactly what I would want to do. But my question is, where would this type of program lead me job wise? Or what would be my choices of possible jobs be with somewhat related work experience and this Master Degree, relating to Finance? Not sure if I haven’t looked hard enough, but I hadn’t found an exact name or site for a Finance Field/Job that enlists these skills/ or goes in detail in what type of work to expect.
Doing a quick check on their placement there are some good names that are showing up on the list:
http://www.business.rutgers.edu/mqf/employment-outcomes
Notably, the good names are not followed by position, if you look, it has a few “risk manager” and “risk market analyst” positions these are usually relatively weak positions from a Street perspective. In general a Masters in finance is not going to place you as well into a traditional Wall Street Role such as IB/Research/S&T/HF/PE… So unless you’re doing heavy work building out trading algorithms (at a glance would be skeptical this is the case) you’d be better off in a traditional path if Wall Street is where you want to be.
If you really want to go down that path, first step you should take is go into their career center and ask for job titles of people/placements after school and the name of the firm, second is go on linked-in and search out people with the same credentials and third is to send a few cold emails to get a better understanding of the work/job placement.
However, the bigger question you should ask first is what job you’re going to be good at and which field interests you most.
http://wallstreetplayboys.com/?p=37
In addition, your question is specific to your previous work experience as well so without that it is harder to decide if you could simply break in now.
Thank you for the response. To be honest I’m currently junior college student, economics major finance minor with some programming background. I only have retail experience and looking for internships now. But I did some researching and what I am looking for is a career path towards quant type jobs. I know what’s required education wise, but I am not fully sure on career path such as internships and job experience necessary before hand. So my question is would a typical wall street path present an oppurtunity for this kind of work (after necessary education) or working through other means better achieve my goal (loosely/roughly related financial internships and work experience plus education) ?
Quant is intense. You would need a higher degree, a BA in Econ would be equivalent to Political science entrance to Wall Street. Now… Without your résumé in hand, three options.
1. You are a rockstar, then go to DE Shaw or Citadel those two firms have some quant openings straight from undergrad. The interview process is incredibly difficult. You will be stressed.
2. Go into Wall Street for a couple of years to show you can “work hard” and apply for a PHD program.
3. Go and get a PHD.
It sounds like you want to be on the highly quant side, algorithmic trading etc (ie: you are the brains behind the code). Those are your best top of mind options.
Thank you. Are you able to look over my Resume and make any career path/internships suggestions from there?
Feel free to send.
Much better to decide where you want to end up first.
“Don’t know what to do” is the worst answer when trying to break in. The interviewers can feel/tell.
I’ve got a question for you guys that I hope you can answer… what do you do when you’re behind the eight ball?
Aside from partying and chasing tail, I spent winter break researching “alternative finance internships” because my family has been actively dissuading me from entering banking, even though I’m a finance major at a huge target school. It’s taken me long enough but I finally realized that I don’t give a shit what my family thinks, I want to work on Wall Street. Only problem is, on campus recruiting deadlines for finance internships are long gone, and first and second round interviews are in full swing.
You guys have put out some great articles on how to get to Wall Street, so I’m wondering what you guys would suggest for a guy in my position. Cold call boutiques? Aggressively email alumni? Any suggestions would be awesome.
We’re getting quite a few of these tailored answer type emails/questions so the answer is it depends on your situation.
We may end up opening some sort of one person a week fix your resume, give you ideas to network etc product but want to try to keep this free.
For you here are some good ideas:
1. Push graduation to December? (not sure your financial situation)
2. Immediately get an internship for the summer for something close to Wall St (asset management, accounting etc.) no one cares about your High GPA in Wall St (ex. the 3.5 cut off for the interview) because everything you learn will not be used.
3. Linked in/ small banks/cold email/ talk to alumni/frats
4. Every single info session at your school you should have a ton
5. Immediately join the finance group just so its on your resume
Those are top of mind answers. Feel free to email.
Hey Guys,
Big fan of the site, love what you’re doing here.
I have a question regarding career path if you are unable to land an IB analyst gig for your first year out of undergrad.
I would like to make this as general as possible so that other people can learn from my comment but I have a pretty complicated situation.
I am currently based out of Charlotte and recently graduated from a 5 year school (with 2 internships). This already puts me 1 year behind the normal track. I then took a job at a large bank in Charlotte (take a guess) doing a pseudo-corp. banking job where I write one-pagers on prospective companies for our originations team and help out the underwriters in regards to underwriting (modeling, credit memos, etc). While this is great experience (I’m not sure how much better I could have done without getting IB, consulting, ER, etc.) I feel that I am already 2 years behind everyone and may have missed the IB window.
On top of this I will hopefully pass the CFA Level 2 Exam this coming June and am heavily into value investing (DDIC, VIC, etc.). I am also proficient as Excel (shortcuts, formulas, modeling from work, LBO modeling & such from personal study). I like to think that I know my stuff, but I obviously have no way of knowing without being tested on a daily basis.
To ask a question as general as possible, is it too late (1 year out of undergrad) to apply for IB analyst jobs? Would someone with my resume be overqualified? Is it worth it? Am I stuck in an awkward middle ground between analyst and associate?
It seems that every 2nd job requires two years of I-banking and I fear that I will become a lifer at my current bank. Is there any hope for us who got the memo a year late or are we going to have and reset with an MBA (hoping not to get both CFA and MBA :( )
So if you’re only 1 year out of undergrad you should be applying for an Analyst role (Just have a graduation date on the resume and no one will know you stayed an extra year). The only way someone gets into the in-between role is with maybe 2 years of IB analyst experience and maybe 2 years of Corp Dev experience. Then you’re right on the line of 1st year associate (there are many other situations as well).
Second, with the CFA experience that is better suited for research, so you could also apply for a research role as well. But the CFA is not going to get you an interview for investment banking. Level 1 shows you know the basics of finance which is all you really need.
Overall your situation is not that difficult, if your school was a target return there for the IB days and see if you can get any traction, network heavily and you have a decent shot to break in. Would not be surprised for you to break in relatively soon if you can spin your current job experience appropriately.
Do I just lie if they ask me if I did 5 years of school? I feel that my multiple co-ops will show that I did not graduate in 4 years due to the amount of time dedicated to them. I’m also worried that the CFA Level II candidacy may scare off firms.
Unfortunately, I did not go to a target but when to a borderline top 25 undergrad. So superdays are a no go.
I might actually start looking at credit research opportunities and leverage my CFA candidacy. Is now a good time of year for an experienced professional to look or would we be competing with undergrads?
Also, can’t wait for the technical questions guide!
There is no lying. Simply put your graduation date and then if they ask how old you are (they will not) you can tell them it was a 5 year program. The point is more to not make it glaringly obvious you are 1 year older than usual.
So resume says “graduated XX” and if they ask for long details give it to them, they won’t care because you’re in the interview room already.
Don’t see the “non=target” as an issue, just go to a nearby school that is a target and attempt to meet banks, you can simply get semi-invited by mentioning you know they have info sessions typically at XX school (this strategy is very aggressive and would work better on smaller banks which would more likely be impressed by the effort where BB’s would likely be scared away, do your homework and attempt to network your way to at least an invite to the event, a line you must learn to toe through trial and error).
This is a fine time to interview, bonuses get paid out in 2 weeks so that’s when the quitting and musical chairs begin.
Technical interview questions loaded up.
Probably best to take additional personal questions off-line and on email unless broad reaching.
WSPlayer,
Congrats on the site, love the site both for humor and learning.
Got a question for you guys:
I’m interested in venture capital & startups. I’ve worked mostly with project organization and budgeting (non-finance sector).
I just moved to Sao Paulo, speak fluent English/Portuguese, and made some solid contacts. Where is a good place to start where I won’t lose any time and can progress quickly through the ladder (turned 26 this month).
This is a very good question, hard to say the best route as we are located in the USA: however check out our Vc post and feel free to email is with a quick overview of your credentials. The basic tenants to VC would be (no particular order):
1. Wall Street experience
2. Successful start up experience
3. Successful funding/investment experience
4. Real operational experience in the same field as the space in which the VC invests.
Hey I didnt know where to post this, but i just spent my whole sunday reading everything in your archives, I got linked here from WSO. This is some great stuff keep it coming loved every article.
I am an accounting and finance major, im way more interested in finance, but i do not need to go to graduate school to qualify for the CPA, do you think it is a good asset to have for the future, or dont take the time studying for it and move straight into finance. My end goal is to be in a hedge fund but i am at a non target school, was thinking working at a big 4 or something in accounting to get the introductions to the hedge funds hoping to be picked up because they like my skill set.
A CPA will not help you for 99.99% of Wall Street positions. A hedge fund will not pick up a person from an accounting position also 99-% of the time. A better route if Big 4 is your best job is as follows.
Big 4 Transactional Services -> investment banking/equity research -> hedge fund (current climate IB experience is better).
Hi,
Thanks for doing all this and sharing great amount of knowledge. I just wanted to get a few advice from you guys. Thanks in advance for helping out.
I will be grabbing a coffee with a partner in Institutional Equity Sales division of a boutique IB/S&T firm next week who is my alumni. Since I don’t have a summer internship in the IB/S&T field, I wanted to ask him for advice as well as to be part of the recruiting process at this firm. How would I be able to approach this topic? It’s because if I tell him directly I want a summer position in his firm on our first coffee meet seem not really appropriate to me. So far, i’m more interested in getting a IB summer internship but having a summer internship related with S&T is also what I want to try as well if the opportunity arises. Should I just focus on talking about how im interested in Institutional equity sales instead of IB? Additionally, any tips on how to network with a partner at a boutique firm would be awesome!
Your advice will be greatly appreciated!
Thanks you!
You are better off shooting for an internship in his division. If he likes you he can certainly help you out.
Establish a positive vibe with him, get him to be interested in maybe hiring you, then being up that you’re interested in working in his division.
You can try to get him to I’ve you and IB internship, but he has much less pull in hat division. Smarter to focus on the division he represents.
Thanks for the brief response.
Should I still mention that I’m looking for opportunities near the end of a coffee meet? Also, should I ask him if his division had any interns in the past? or Should i just talk about when he was at school and his interests etc instead of talking about opportunities at his firm?
Thanks!
Additionally, When he asks about my interests should I just say i’m interested in S&T instead of IB right? I just wanted to clarify and not screw up.
Thanks for all the help!
As stated above if he works in S&T he has the power to get you a job or internship in S&T. While he can certainly help you get an interview in investment banking, he will have much less leverage getting you a job there.
You should find a way to bring up that you are interested in working for his firm (S&T or investment banking – we recommend you have a strong story and say S&T because he will have more pull in that division). You absolutely need to find a way to show you want to work at his firm, he knows you want to work in finance, your job is to give him reasons to hire you or be interested in hiring you then slip in that you’re interested in working as an intern.
For your question below, again if you want to have the highest probability you’re better off saying you want to work in S&T only and then his division. Have good answers for why S&T and why his division and why you’d be a good fit. The last thing you want to do is waste his time, so phrase your questions in a way that show you’re interested and are of value to him. Then politely ask him if they are hiring interns.
Thank you so much for the great tip!
If you don’t mind, would you be open to giving me some examples of potentially a good questions to ask at a partner level? Also, is there any resources that you would recommend reading to learn more about it?
Thanks again for the great advice!
Hi, I’m supporting a girlfriend from a foreign country that doesn’t have the level of English to work. She’s learning quickly but I’m feeling the financial pressures aren’t worth it. She’s super hot and I’m smitten by her looks. Not sure if the stress is worth having her around. Advice?
… Just type “no marriage pitchbook” into the search function.
I have an upcoming sell-day coming up and I was wondering, what are the groups you feel would allow for a better transition to hfs? I was thinking of Capital Markets: Investment Grade, High Yield, or Loan, since its more markets-oriented.
It depends on what type of hedge fund you wish to join. Generally speaking ECM is one of the weaker groups in terms of job mobility. It is actually not a good group for either PE or Hedge funds.
If you join an M&A group you can join a hedge fund that works in Merger Arb. If you want to join a long-short equity hedge fund then you would want to join a group that has some industry specifics, ex. a medical group, then apply to Long-short equity hedge funds that focus on the medical sector.
In short, simply go and find what type of fund you would like to work for then choose your group/bank based on that analysis.
Hell, I’ll just post it:
Brutally Honest Advice for Wall Street Interns
We’re in the heart of intern season, which means thousands of bright-eyed college and graduate students are putting in the hours, setting themselves up for long distinctive careers on Wall Street. Others, meanwhile, are shooting themselves in foot, killing their chances of finding work down the road, at least at the bank in which they’re interning.
In an effort to help keep the latter group as small as possible, we reached out to four vice presidents on Wall Street – two investment bankers at bulge bracket firms, a hedge fund exec and a consultant – to capture the dos and don’ts of being an intern. Each source not only currently manages interns, but has been one in the past at the MBA level. Two are female and two are male. They asked to remain anonymous to give you the real dirt. And off we go…
Male VP – Investment Banking
Don’t take your necktie off. Ever.
Be awesome to your assistant – she’s probably one of the boss’s assistants too.
Walk fast everywhere – people will think you are busy.
Don’t ever, ever ask for more work.
When you get an offer, people will expect you to make a speech. Be prepared.
Female Hedge Fund Exec:
Don’t wear flip flops to work in the morning, even if it’s from the elevator to your desk. My feet hurt too. Suck it up.
Heels should be no higher than 4 inches. Leave your Louboutins at home. Only secretaries wear the red soles to work.
Don’t carry a bag that is exponentially nicer than your boss’s. And no logos. You don’t have to go super budget with a Kate Spade or Michael Kors catastrophe, but be cognizant of your surroundings. Saint Laurent or Valextra are fine.
Don’t count calories openly if you are skinny. Use MyFitnessPal or some other app discreetly on your iPhone.
No screen saver shot of your “amazing” boyfriend of __years.
If flying on business, NEVER wear an underwire bra, it will set off the X-ray machine at security.
Female VP – Investment Banking:
Ask questions! Don’t sit at your desk for hours spinning your wheels because you don’t understand something. If you have spent more than 5 minutes trying to figure something out and you know it shouldn’t take long, ask another person in your summer class and if they don’t know ask a full time analyst. Everyone assumes you are dumb and don’t know anything about this job. They won’t think less of you if you ask a question.
You will be asked to do several mindless tasks. Have a good attitude. The full time bankers will likely complain about their job constantly. Don’t chime in but don’t be some chipper “I love this job” crazy person. You won’t be sleeping. You shouldn’t be that happy. People will think you are on something.
Back to the mindless tasks, do them well. Check every email twice before sending. Check your work two or three times. You shouldn’t be making grammatical mistakes in emails. Formatting is not hard. Do it correctly. When you are asked to print out work you have done, check it when it’s printed. They will teach you this in training, but never hand anyone a sheet of paper that is literally hot from the printer.
As far as dress goes, no one expects you to dress like a seasoned banker but use some common sense. You were likely visited on campus by full time bankers countless times during the recruiting process. You should know what the bankers dress like. Guys: no brown suits, green shirts, brown ties…you get the picture. You can’t go wrong with a white shirt. What guys wear is not going influence their chances of getting an offer but you will be made fun of to your face.
Girls, obviously, don’t be slutty. You should know that. Also don’t come in wearing Louboutins. People will think you don’t need this job and, to be honest, if you are wearing $700 shoes to an internship at age 21 you probably don’t. These choices could influence whether or not you get an offer.
Male Consultant:
While you are a new hire and essentially a part time employee, you are expected to act informed beyond your tenure. Do your best to project confidence in unfamiliar situations to establish credibility.
Demonstrate how you are a team player. You are expected to kick ass on individual deliverables, and everyone will do this. The folks who will distinguish themselves and get hired are the best team players.
Go to lunch or coffee with as many people as possible to build a network of advocates for you in the company. Ask these people thoughtful questions during your chat with them.
Hell, I’ll Just Post It…
Older, better-qualified and keener than ever: meet the only graduates investment banks want to hire
by Paul Clarke:
In theory, investment banks shouldn’t be able to attract the best graduates. Yes, they pay a higher starting salary than any other industry, but their appeal as an employer has dimmed in recent years – as recent rankings reveal – and reputational issues, particularly in light of the recent death of summer intern Moritz Erhardt, have supposedly turned many off the sector.
And yet, getting in is tougher than ever. The 2013 analyst class at banks like Goldman Sachs, Barclays and Royal Bank of Scotland all share one common trait – they are clearly among the elite. Multiple front-office internships, exemplary academics at a top university, investment experience, finance society leadership roles, awards and accolades – these are all common traits of analysts hired this year.
One analyst to make it into RBS this year, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said that all this years’ front-office recruits share “good academics, work experience and eagerness” with the majority taking steps to secure an investment banking role from day one at university. The scaling back of graduate programmes, together with higher conversion rates from internships, has simply lead to students having to up their game, he said.
From the banks’ point of view, there may be an element of over-compensating for their diminished appeal, however, claims another analyst who secured a role at Deutsche Bank this year. The standard of the typical recruit has got higher, he admits, but this is down to investment banks wanting to show that they haven’t lost their mojo.
“Banks certainly feel under more pressure than ever to keep attracting top talent,” he said. “They feel that their ability to attract the best students has waned relative to other career paths over recent years and they have seen both fewer applications and lower offer acceptance rates. Banking is definitely still incredibly competitive as an industry to join, it’s just lost its gloss as a career destination for many of the best graduates, at least from the perspective of the banks themselves.”
From the get-go at university (if not before), investment banks are demanding evidence of both students’ elite qualities as well as their commitment to the industry. On top of this, you’ll have to be interesting enough to ingratiate yourself to fellow investment bankers.
“It seems a disproportionate number of analysts start slightly older than 21,” said another new analyst. “They have completed a gap year prior to or after university to gain further experience or have been at university longer and hence more able to get other experiences to propel them towards banking opportunities.”
All in all, investment banks want a combination of qualities that would seem unattainable to the majority of university students, claims the Deutsche Bank analyst.
“Banks demand graduates who are incredibly hard working, reliable and committed to the industry,” he added. “They want people who will first be able to last in the high-pressure environment. They are looking for graduates who will be able to contribute exceptional analytical ability. And they need the ability to present and communicate well – although intelligence is very important, nerds are not sought after – bankers both want to hire fun characters to work with and for clients to interact with.”
Eight tips from analysts who have made it in 2013:
1. Start early: “First year programmes are normally less competitive – if not on an applicant-to-place ratio, in terms of the quality and preparedness of the people they take – so get on to those and the path into a full-time job will become much clearer.”
2. Really get to know the bank you’re applying to: “I would suggest researching extensively to gain a deeper understanding of the offering and future plans of the bank. Big changes are being made across the industry and keeping up to date is fundamental – use career fairs to gain insights on specific institutions from business representatives.”
3. If you don’t have a finance-related degree, learn about the industry: “Those with finance degrees tend to learn quickly enough about financial concepts to excel during an internship versus their more experienced peers. Training programmes don’t really help with this problem, not giving non-finance students much more help than those from more relevant backgrounds.”
4. Get your application in as soon as possible: “Apply as early as possible, as the majority of banks recruit on a rolling basis – the opening date is more important than the deadline.”
5. If you can’t convert and internship, leverage it: “Aside from internships with a bank a student then goes onto join, the most likely route into an investment bank is doing an internship at a well-respected rival or corporate company elsewhere. Banks seem to look out for candidates who have gone elsewhere. It’s almost a prerequisite to have some level of financial experience before getting a full-time offer.”
6. Don’t make it all about finance: “Extra-curricular activities and interests will help to show your human side and personality.”
7. If you’re not at a top university, look elsewhere: “If you don’t have financial experience and are not studying at a top tier university, it may not be worthwhile making a front-office application to a leading investment bank; a boutique or one outside of the bulge bracket may make more sense.”
8. Get experience, even if it’s not where you want to end up: “The majority of students have done spring weeks within the industry. Many students have even completed other financial internships during their first year at university – perhaps not at an investment bank but within financial services more broadly often. Even working in a back office or different corporate role really helps.”
I recently completed a B.A. majoring in Economics and Politics at a top university in Australia, with good grades but certainly not ‘elite’.
To land an investment banking job it seems like I could either reenrol in a finance degree and focus on getting dominant grades, involving myself in finance-related extracurricular leadership activities, and networking myself into the industry as much as possible.
It seems like this is the sure-fire way, but the opportunity cost seems quite large (3-4 years to complete, more debt)
Are there any other ways that you recommend? A lot of the short/internet based courses I look up seem unlikely to get me closer to my goal.
I am senior 21, and my entire college career I always wanted to go to law school but after much due research I started to realize the cost and benefit of going to law school is just not worth it anymore. 150K in debt and 7 years to possibly pay that off from a “POSSIBLE” biglaw job. Also I had a life changing experience and realized that I want to make money a lot of $$. There is just a catch 122 I am Political science major from a state school, my GPA is a 3.8 but did not do much math in college. I am currently learning C++, coding, and python just to gain more skills. Is there anyway I can get my foot into the door. A Plus: is I have very strong work ethic and my love for money and the good things in life motivates me more than the average person but everyone probably says that. Any Help or tips would be appreciated,.
The harsh truth is on paper that set up will not get you on the street. You will have to either find a smaller role (wealth management perhaps) pass the CFA and try to jump up to s&t or research in the future.
Alternatively, you get an MBA at a top school, or you attend law school and work in a profession similar to Wall Street (securities law/M&A law) and switch but the latter path is a stretch.
Highest probability is a low end job (wealth management/asset managemt at a smaller firm) after you have passed the first level of the CFA. Python/c++ is not relevant for the street.
I’m currently a freshman at a top 10 American university and would like to study mathematical finance and computer science. I’d like to work on financial algorithms and models but I’m not sure what my options are.
I’ve heard of proprietary traders that take undergrads and are heavy on mathematics but I’m not entirely sure what they do. Are there any options for working in mathematical/algorithmic finance that don’t require me to carve up 5-7 years of my life as a pHD student?
Unfortunately, none of our current contributors work as algo traders/quant fund guys. The blog is primarily comprised of the sell side + HFs/PE contributors.
Notably, the prop desk idea is hit or miss. If you are great at the job you can make a lot of money and make it quick, the problem is it is a horrible job if you are average to below average (you would be making low 5 figures)
That’s fine. I’ll just look some more on my own.
If you can, just point me to some websites or books where I could begin to learn about algo/quant finance opportunities. That would be wonderful.
Thanks for taking the time to reply though.
No problem DG.
In your shoes, guessing you are a college student, you should contact professors who were previously quants. We normally don’t recommend ever speaking to academics but in this case ,any academics have previous quant experience.
Check out the major east coast schools Cornell, NYC etc. and get in touch with people who have old quant backgrounds. They can provide some good guidance.
I looked through the Interview Q&A – Investment Banking, but any specific advice on leveraged finance analyst interview?
Thanks in advance!!
Hmm we may add a section if we get time but the basics are practically the same the slight difference is as follows:
1) lev fin works heavily with debt so you wold be expected to hear debt related questions such as “how would a merger look different in all cash versus debt?” … Leading into “how do the 3 statements change from a all cash transaction versus one funded by debt, please walk me through the 3 statements”
2) you won’t be expected to fully understand an LBO if you’re interviewing for an ibd analyst role but …know why an LBO occurs and how PE firms would look at structuring debt
3) understand why a firm would raise debt instead of equity
Those are the three real nuances. Good luck!
Really like the points you make in regards to game, relationships, how to be a solid guy. With that said, I’d love to hear your thoughts on going after past flames. Any words of wisdom? Thanks for the great site!
Let them go.
Hi guys, would you recommend paying for interview coaching? I’m based in the UK, I had interviews with large banks for FO positions but I didn’t go through to final rounds, will be starting at a MM bank. Careers service is crap at my uni so no help there.
Absolutely not.
Your best bet, now that recruiting is over is to get ranked in the top bucket at your bank then immediately look to lateral to a larger bank. Keep your eyes peeled but at the end of the day that is likely the best course of action.
Interview coaching is generally a waste for Wall Street, simply practice your pitch with several people in the industry (you will have a few solid contacts over the next 6 months) and begin applying.
WS Playboys-
Currently in b-school and finished up a summer internship at a BB bank. Received a full time offer yesterday. I have a friend who works in Charlotte at WF (IBD) and is convinced it’s the place to be due to cost of living. What is your opinion on NYC BB vs WF Securities in Charlotte with respect to an invstment banking career? Significant or negligible differences?
This question has come up numerous times in the past. In particular many times on the ask us anything section.
Here’s the answer to every “which bank should i choose”
“Which bank is going to give me the highest chance of being promoted to VP?”
Do your research on each specific group and once you answer that you’re done. Nothing else matters.
If you make ~$250K in NC or $250K in NYC… It means absolutely nothing if you are able to make $500K as a VP.
I’m currently a senior at a senior military college expecting to graduate this may with a major in Modern Languages and Cultures and a minor in psychology. My school is ranked around #20 for alumni with highest salaries, but I do realize with my non-stem major I am at a disadvantage. Our alumni network is very powerful and our school endowment is even more impressive.
My question is: what advice would you give me? I realize that I would probably not be able to break in to WS, with my graduating GPA being about 3.1 and my major GPA 3.5, but what should I consider? I really just know I want to make a lot of money. Given the type of school I attend, I’m strongly reconsidering doing 3-4 years in the military and reaping the educational benefits of having them pay for an MBA after I get out, but would I be better off doing something else instead? I have very little desire to work in an office.